Islam doesn't condone terror

Montalban said:

That's a massive misrepresentation of what Jesus' message was.

Jesus himself went into the temple and over-turned the tables of the money lenders.

He didn't say "I know that's wrong, but I'll just let them go about their business"

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Jesus was sinless and could judge. Are you sinless? Do you think you have the authority to judge other people?

simonpeter said:

Jesus was sinless and could judge. Are you sinless? Do you think you have the authority to judge other people?

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When I see someone blow up civillians I'm not going to sit by and say "I can't say that this is evil".

simonpeter said:

The hatred displayed by 'Christians' here goes against Jesus' exhortation that we should love everyone unconditionally.

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What goes against Jesus is not dealing with evidence.

There's a terrible confusion amongst some Christians who believe that it's Christ-like to stay silent whilst terror goes on around them.

They've perverted the Christian concept of 'love' to one of complaisance.

I find that a terrible distortion of Christian values.

I guess when Peter and Paul preached the truth of Christ that they were being 'evil' and 'judgmental' and 'intolerant'.

The facts are that Muhammed congratulated people who murdered others. He supported terror.

Here's one example from their texts (not an anti-Islamic site) and the results, also from their texts
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food." (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, "Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me." Muhammad bin Mas-lama and his companion said, "What do you want?" Ka'b replied, "Mortgage your women to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?" Ka'b said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people's saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you." Muhammad bin Maslama and his companion promised Kab that Muhammad would return to him. He came to Kab at night along with Kab's foster brother, Abu Na'ila. Kab invited them to come into his fort, and then he went down to them. His wife asked him, "Where are you going at this time?" Kab replied, "None but Muhammad bin Maslama and my (foster) brother Abu Na'ila have come." His wife said, "I hear a voice as if dropping blood is from him, Ka'b said. "They are none but my brother Muhammad bin Maslama and my foster brother Abu Naila. A generous man should respond to a call at night even if invited to be killed." Muhammad bin Maslama went with two men. (Some narrators mention the men as 'Abu bin Jabr. Al Harith bin Aus and Abbad bin Bishr). So Muhammad bin Maslama went in together with two men, and sail to them, "When Ka'b comes, I will touch his hair and smell it, and when you see that I have got hold of his head, strip him. I will let you smell his head." Kab bin Al-Ashraf came down to them wrapped in his clothes, and diffusing perfume. Muhammad bin Maslama said. " have never smelt a better scent than this. Ka'b replied. "I have got the best 'Arab women who know how to use the high class of perfume." Muhammad bin Maslama requested Ka'b "Will you allow me to smell your head?" Ka'b said, "Yes." Muhammad smelt it and made his companions smell it as well. Then he requested Ka'b again, "Will you let me (smell your head)?" Ka'b said, "Yes." When Muhammad got a strong hold of him, he said (to his companions), "Get at him!" So they killed him and went to the Prophet and informed him. (Abu Rafi) was killed after Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf."
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

After this murder the Jews were struck with terror, and realised that Muhammed would resort to force…
When the Jews learned about the death of their tyrant, Ka‘b bin Al-Ashraf, they were scared and
even their stonelike hearts were in the grip of inexpressible panic. They realized that the Messenger
of Allâh (Peace be upon him) would thenceforth never hesitate to use force when good words and
admonition failed. They remained silent and resigned, and faked adherence to covenants.
“The Sealed Nectar” 111.
http://comp.uark.edu/~muslim/publications/Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum.pdf

Montalban said:

When I see someone blow up civillians I'm not going to sit by and say "I can't say that this is evil".

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But you're judging people who are not blowing anything up, who are generally peaceful. You're judging an entire population, an entire religion, using a few random examples. That's wrong, isn't it?

Montalban said:

The facts are that Muhammed congratulated people who murdered others. He supported terror.

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I see. So your real intention is to defame the Islamic religion, its founder.

simonpeter said:

But you're judging people who are not blowing anything up, who are generally peaceful. You're judging an entire population, an entire religion, using a few random examples.

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You're quite welcome to think that the founder of their faith is but a 'random example'. He's said by Moslems as their best example of a human, and many try to base their lives on aspects of his life. I don't know why you'd think what you think though. You've not explained any rationale for your suppositions.

As I say, you're free not to deal with the evidence presented.

simonpeter said:

That's wrong, isn't it?

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Can you say it is? IF you can, then you argue against yourself by judging my action as being wrong.

If you can't say it's wrong, then you've no objection to what I write.

simonpeter said:

I see. So your real intention is to defame the Islamic religion, its founder.

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How is citing Islamic texts defaming them? Please explain this. If a person says "I welcome this murder" and a newspaper reported him saying it, is that defamation? Perhaps you think that the collectors of the Hadiths also defamed him, because they're the ones first reporting it

What do you base your novel theory of defamation on?

Some people have the world turned upside down.

I've seen many Moslems just reject the evidence presented as being from anti-Islamic sites when I didn't use them for this evidence.

I have a theory about what I term 'weak' Christianity. This is practiced by Christians who have everything backwards, example: where Godly love equals 'love of sin'.

simonpeter said:

But you're judging people who are not blowing anything up, who are generally peaceful. You're judging an entire population, an entire religion, using a few random examples. That's wrong, isn't it?

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Did you bother reading my post,I specifically named the JIHADISTS. Montalban's point was that there is a causal link between the teachings of the Quran and the horrific acts of terrorism we see today.How would you show love for the Jews if they were facing a united Islamic front that wanted to drive them into the sea killing every last one?If that Islamic army attacked Israel how would you show love?How about our innocent brothers and sisters in Islamic countries who have been beaten to death,had grenades tossed into their churches,or been beheaded?

FRM48 said:

Did you bother reading my post,I specifically named the JIHADISTS. Montalban's point was that there is a causal link between the teachings of the Quran and the horrific acts of terrorism we see today.How would you show love for the Jews if they were facing a united Islamic front that wanted to drive them into the sea killing every last one?If that Islamic army attacked Israel how would you show love?How about our innocent brothers and sisters in Islamic countries who have been beaten to death,had grenades tossed into their churches,or been beheaded?

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Let's grant that every word you (and Montalban) say is true. What exactly do you intend to do?

simonpeter said:

Let's grant that every word you (and Montalban) say is true. What exactly do you intend to do?

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What a baited question.We are voices in the wilderness,while the rest of the world wants to appease Islam,we are speaking out to the contrary.And if I see the innocent being attacked or killed in front of me,I will use every ounce of energy in this 48 year old body to defend them,even if it means losing my own life.What are you prepared to do?

simonpeter said:

Let's grant that every word you (and Montalban) say is true. What exactly do you intend to do?

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Don't just accept what I say. Look at the evidence I've put forward, and ask questions.

That's what a discussion is about.

It's self-defeating to suggest that my behaviour is wrong, and judgmental when you'd be doing exactly that of my behaviour.

As to what am I doing about it. What do you think I'm doing now? I'm bringing it to people's attention and urging discussion about it.

Unfortunately certain people want to try any conversation OTHER than dealing with that evidence.

Montalban said:

As to what am I doing about it. What do you think I'm doing now? I'm bringing it to people's attention and urging discussion about it.
.

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And by doing all this, you'll be spending more time on Islam than Christ. Isn't that odd? You think that's gonna help you in your walk with Christ?

Besides, your motive seems a little suspect. Do you want to demonize Muslims under the pretext of 'analyzing' and 'discussing' Islam? Just think about that, would you? No need to get defensive.

simonpeter said:

And by doing all this...

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I see you don't want to discuss the topic, but continue with personal comments and analysis.

Fair enough, if you think that's the Christian thing to do, that's up to you.

FRM48 said:

What a baited question.

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I find it amazing that so many 'Christians' leap to the defence of evils, simply because they are practiced by another religion.

It's strange that people want to say that the evidence is anti-Islamic, when it comes from Islam!

simonpeter said:

And by doing all this, you'll be spending more time on Islam than Christ. Isn't that odd? You think that's gonna help you in your walk with Christ?

Besides, your motive seems a little suspect. Do you want to demonize Muslims under the pretext of 'analyzing' and 'discussing' Islam? Just think about that, would you? No need to get defensive.

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Montalban is just doing exactly what Jesus did when he stood in the synagogues, denounced evil, and preached that there was a better way.

Servant of Jesus said:

Montalban is just doing exactly what Jesus did when he stood in the synagogues, denounced evil, and preached that there was a better way.

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Thank you.

Whilst he can point to Jesus being perfect, Simon Peter, Paul, et al, who weren't perfect also did the same.

For instance Christians took an early stand against pederasty. They took a stance against what they saw as an evil. They argued against it - warning of the fact it was a sin.

This was not to judge people to hell - God judges people.

Eventually someone will want to deal with the facts of Muhammed's terrorism.

I pray for all those who leap to his defence.

Montalban, you say you'd protect the innocent. I too feel this way. In fact, when someone posts with the intent of spreading hate, I feel compelled to protect them.

Most Christians are peaceful people. Some use their religion as a means to incite violence and hate. Same goes for Muslims. Same goes for most religions. Do try to have a sense of perspective.