Isis,

[Euler]

So where would you draw the line when those changes happen?

ABBA music. I couldn't survive in any community that held that ABBA was real music!

Are there any principles you hold as sacred,

See that little icon next to my username up there? I don't hold anything as "sacred".

that you would't change even if society made you an outcast if you didn't?

Apart from ABBA, nothing comes to mind. Unless living as an atheist in a strongly theistic community you mean! But, from my point of view at least, that's one of those peripheries I mentioned.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

In reality, I don't think many Christians see Jesus as a figure to be emulated. Not just that they see it but fall short, but the don't even think that way around. They Jesus as God with a vaneer of a human body doing something entirely one-off.

If they are emulating any religious figure it's most likely their pastor. Who is most likely not noticably better than mohammed.

You're somewhat disconnected from reality on several levels. Or perhaps you're just being contrarian for the sake of arguing.

Let me google that for you

Let me google that for you

Ooo, also:

Philippians 2
1 Peter 2:21
1 John 2:6
Hebrews 6:12
1 Thessalonians 1:6



Thanks for the discussion

 

[ebia]

You're somewhat disconnected from reality on several levels. Or perhaps you're just being contrarian for the sake of arguing.

Let me google that for you

Let me google that for you

Ooo, also:

Philippians 2
1 Peter 2:21
1 John 2:6
Hebrews 6:12
1 Thessalonians 1:6



Thanks for the discussion

I didn't say that they shouldn't look to Jesus as a model, nor that they would tell you that they don't. But rather that the way they see Jesus means that's not the reality.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Ironically no. My own personal opinion is, if somebody believes in something, anything is better then having absolutely no belief at all.

Why?

Please explain how dogmatically believing something without evidence is better then tentatively believing something based on evidence.

I look at it this way, i would sooner trust an individual that believes they answer to a higher power then someone who believes that they answer to no one for their trespasses.

Why?

But thats just my personal preference, you know, some people like their breakfast hot, some people like coffee instead of tea, i personally like my associates to not be Godless heathens, potato pototo,, ya know?

Errr, no. Those are entirely different things.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I get your subliminal message, i wont win any beauty contests with my attitude towards atheists,,, However, atheists truly do upset me at times, they crave this solid evidence that the Christian God is real, yet,just as faith demands it, they deserve no proof, proof makes Faith unnecessary, and we need Faith, if for no other reason then not allowing someone to come along and tamper with our beliefs.

lol, wut?

You consider it a bad thing when your beliefs are questioned?
You don't like learning new things?
You never change your mind in light of new data?

Is this why you ended up not getting your degree?

But atheists do upset me, with the things they will stand behind, without the slightest shred of evidence.

Such as? This should be interesting...

You say you dont believe in God, you must have proof, please,, share with us your proof God isnt real?

Shifting the burden of proof is very childish.

 

[Cearbhall]

At the risk of repeating what has been stated before and before, the difference is the scriptural basis: Christ teaches to love your neighbor, and any Christian will agree that we are to follow Christ both in words and in actions.

I'm personally more interested in religions as living, changing, man-made organizations that cause people do to both good and harm in the name of their beliefs. The stories that ancient scribes wrote to represent certain things about Jesus (scribes who were born after Jesus was crucified) does not change the reality of the history of the Church. Scriptural basis is only an important distinction if you're a Christian who has to concern himself with how to be a good Christian.

And, as I've said before, you run the risk of slandering Judaism if you suggest that scripture is what makes a religion laudable or dangerous. The first few books of the Old Testament are terrifying. And that's God himself doing the dirty work, not a prophet.

 

[Senator Cheese]

I'm personally more interested in religions as living, changing, man-made organizations that cause people do to both good and harm in the name of their beliefs. The stories that ancient scribes wrote to represent certain things about Jesus (scribes who were born after Jesus was crucified) does not change the reality of the history of the Church. Scriptural basis is only an important distinction if you're a Christian who has to concern himself with how to be a good Christian.

Scriptural basis is important in differentiating between ideology and those who follow an ideology.

For example, just because democrats (not in the party sense, but in the sense of identification to a political system) commit crimes in the name of their ideology (e.g. invasion of foreign nations) does not mean that democracy is at fault.
If, however, someone commits crimes in the name of their ideology that is scripturally sound (e.g. someone acting in the name of Mein Kampf or the Quoran), then the ideology is intrinsically linked to the act itself.

I do agree that your focus on religion as a man-made construct is a practical way of looking at things. And since we're at it, we might as well say that in contemporary times, Islam is by far the most violent religion that has graced our Earth. References to previous times during which the Church was "also bad" might be a nifty thing to keep in mind, but is completely irrelevant when looking at the current situation. Or do you think that 600 years ago, individuals felt "at ease" knowing that "well, the Church might be persecuting us now, but in a couple of centuries it'll be alright"?

All distinctions and historical references aside, one simple fact remains: religious terror has become rampant globally, predominately in the name of Islam and with the goal of establishing a global caliphate, which is cited as justification by the perpetrators.

And, as I've said before, you run the risk of slandering Judaism if you suggest that scripture is what makes a religion laudable or dangerous. The first few books of the Old Testament are terrifying. And that's God himself doing the dirty work, not a prophet.

You are correct in saying that Judaism, on a scriptural basis, seems to be very violent. Though one could even construe a distinction between scriptural documentation of a violent God (Judaism) and actually COMMANDMENTS to kill (Islam).
I wouldn't care much about that distinction, though, simply because there are fewer Jews and inconsiderable amounts of Jewish terrorism on this world.

The same cannot be said of Islam.

 

[Shadowprophet]

Turnabout is fair play dogmahunter, to call turnabout of fair play anything but fair is childish.

And your quit literally taking this conversation down an unnecessarily dramatic tone,
Liten up a little bro, its good for the heart, these little trip episodes about why i dont have my degree, its non cannon and doesn't apply to your situation other then to illustrate you can be phallic at times,

Nobody wants to convo with a rabbid debbie downer doing the negative nancy dance all the time.
Yeah, i dont have my physics degree, but you know what i do have, a happy wife, two happy kids, two grandkids, all whos needs and desires are paid for because instead of making them suffer for no reason while i spent more money on a degree, i got a real job and climbed those ladders to pay actual bills with and not live in some just wait till im a physicist fantasy of financial suffering .

But, i mean, you couldn't understand such plight could you, , oh anonymous voice from the Internet.

 

[Euler]

Turnabout is fair play dogmahunter, to call turnabout of fair play anything but fair is childish.

And your quit literally taking this conversation down an unnecessarily dramatic tone,
Liten up a little bro, its good for the heart, these little trip episodes about why i dont have my degree, its non cannon and doesn't apply to your situation other then to illustrate you can be phallic at times,

Nobody wants to convo with a rabbid debbie downer doing the negative nancy dance all the time.
Yeah, i dont have my physics degree, but you know what i do have, a happy wife, two happy kids, two grandkids, all whos needs and desires are paid for because instead of making them suffer for no reason while i spent more money on a degree, i got a real job and climbed those ladders to pay actual bills with and not live in some just wait till im a physicist fantasy of financial suffering .

But, i mean, you couldn't understand such plight could you, , oh anonymous voice from the Internet.

That shoulder must be getting awfully tired. You might wanna shift that giant chip over onto the other one for a while.

 

[Cearbhall]

Scriptural basis is important in differentiating between ideology and those who follow an ideology.

Religion is not scripture, though. The word "religion" does not refer solely to the static document that spurred the founding of a religion. Religions are man-made institutions that are created by humans and continually altered, expanded, and fractured by other humans.

For example, you might say that those who don't follow the Bible are not Christian. However, you're going by your own personal interpretation of the Bible. Someone else could just as easily say the same about you, rendering the claim void.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Turnabout is fair play dogmahunter, to call turnabout of fair play anything but fair is childish.

Shifting the burden of proof is childish, immature and a clear sign that you cannot justify your claim.

And your quit literally taking this conversation down an unnecessarily dramatic tone,

Perhaps that is just the way you see it.
I consider it pretty dramatic however, when a person proudly says that "faith" is more important then "proof" and even goes so far as to say that faith is what keeps you from questioning your beliefs and pretend that that is actually a good thing.

Yes, that's very dramatic imo.

Liten up a little bro, its good for the heart, these little trip episodes about why i dont have my degree, its non cannon and doesn't apply to your situation other then to illustrate you can be phallic at times,

I was just interested. You brought it up and I felt you only told half the story. I was curious so I asked the question. If you don't wish to answer it, that's fine. Don't blame me for being interested.

Yeah, i dont have my physics degree, but you know what i do have, a happy wife, two happy kids, two grandkids, all whos needs and desires are paid for because instead of making them suffer for no reason while i spent more money on a degree, i got a real job and climbed those ladders to pay actual bills with and not live in some just wait till im a physicist fantasy of financial suffering .

Okay. So you dropped out of school for financial reasons. I'm sorry to hear that. Off course it's great that you're doing well.

Nevertheless, I always feel it's sad when an education needs to be stopped for financial reasons.

But, i mean, you couldn't understand such plight could you, , oh anonymous voice from the Internet.

What makes you think I couldn't understand such plight?
You really should stop assuming you have all the answers before asking the questions.

 

[klibera]

I view now the afghan & Iraqi war as failures. We didn't win anything. We didn't change hearts & minds. We lost a lot of people. Mr. Bush needed a Middle East expert & he didn't seek one. If you remember Mr. Bush was angry about the Iraqi attempt on his father's life. I believe that drove him to revenge. The war was ill-planned. He did not execute his dad's model from the first gulf war. And once we were entrenched, then it looked as if Cheney was fighting his demons of the cold war. When war is on there is good business for defense contractors. Union workers are happy, stockholders gleeful. But it comes at a price. Neither could appreciate the loss of soldiers' blood. Now Obama didn't fix anything either-he put the frosting on the loss & his tenure is quite laughable. No one seems to have the guts to take on ISIS. We need a Trumanesque moment to do so.

 

[Shadowprophet]

Shifting the burden of proof is childish, immature and a clear sign that you cannot justify your claim.



Perhaps that is just the way you see it.
I consider it pretty dramatic however, when a person proudly says that "faith" is more important then "proof" and even goes so far as to say that faith is what keeps you from questioning your beliefs and pretend that that is actually a good thing.

Yes, that's very dramatic imo.



I was just interested. You brought it up and I felt you only told half the story. I was curious so I asked the question. If you don't wish to answer it, that's fine. Don't blame me for being interested.




Okay. So you dropped out of school for financial reasons. I'm sorry to hear that. Off course it's great that you're doing well.

Nevertheless, I always feel it's sad when an education needs to be stopped for financial reasons.



What makes you think I couldn't understand such plight?
You really should stop assuming you have all the answers before asking the questions.

You know, its a paradox, text in itself dose not fully justify communication, and even if it could people would still tend to disagree.

For that , i apologize, im short tempered, but im not a bad sort, imagine being around a sort of individuals in your environment where everyday what they believe in is changing.

Some people would call that growth, but how is the constant changing of ones belief growth? To grow in something, you must have experience in that thing,,

As a Christian, and a believer in God, i am aware of what i believe, i have, put a lot of energy into my beliefs, that energy that i put into worship, can be profusely debated, but, from my heart, that is where i spent that energy, worshiping God,

Well, im just saying, this is energy i spent, loving and beliving in an idea, can you say that spent energy was pointless? All those millions of belivers, spending all this energy, worshiping, and you claim that this practice is for nothing?


Man hasn't been taught since the beginning of time about this energy and how to use it for worship for ironic parodys sake ...

There is a saying amidst the belivers, wherever two or three are gathered in his name, he will be there, by the belivers math, the faith of two is all energy required to call God, none can deny this, this is scripture. So there is even a mathematical measuring system of faith as a measurable energy unit , but thats a whole other topic i suppose,

You may not believe, two hundred years ago you wouldnt have believed a man would walk on the moon, or that a heart transplant could take place someday, you believe what you will bro but what you believe in is not completed and ever changes, three hundred years from now, your belief will be rendered obsolete by new proven data and how will future peoples look back at your vast gallery of idealism? With all your prided information obsolete. You will appear as much a caveman as any of us then. At least my belief has withstood thousands of years. Your belief will be radically changed within a few years.

Just saying man.

 

[Shadowprophet]

I must work tomorrow, @ dogmahunter, sorry to come off a jerk, its not you, im far from perfect. Without you responding to my posts, I'd have no conversations,,

I will tell you a secret, there is one thing in this universe that exists forever.

But you have to be openminded enough to understand it.

Light is eternal.

Be open minded and hear me out,

The light from a star all the way across the universe that took 13 billion years to reach us, the star itself is long gone, but that light shead from that star, will contain the stars entire lifespan forever travelling in that light. 48 billion years from now, another species could learn all about that star, which in a way still will very much exist in the universe, just in a different from, as light travelling through spacetime, forever, without end ,eternally,._. can't you see how much nature has taught science? Let nature teach you, that just because you can't see the big picture, or aren't even aware there was a big picture, it still doesn't mean there isn't a big picture.

Even though I've explained this as best i can i can't help but feel people wont see the ironic parallels to this, as versus a physical existence converting into an energy existence, why dogmahunter? Here we are, here we live and breath and think, why must you insist that in the case of something as special and unique as life, that a physical to energy conversation is simply to impossibly conveniently profound?... Its almost a perfect parallel to natures existing model , no, it wont do, it'll never convince the stubborn. No,, my assumption is it would take alot more then that._

[Edit note, did you know that while its visibly underwhelmingly faint, but scientifically proven, bioluminescence, the human body does produce a small amount of light, . Light is Pretty much eternal isn't it?..That Would Almost Mean, our every action for our whole lives is writen in the light we biolumines, recorded within this light we give off, for all time to boot it all.]

 

[chuckpeterson]

I hear all this talk about ISIS; while no one talks about where they are getting their funding or what country they came from or who is supplying their arms?

If they were representing a “country” we would know it; but they are not, so who are they, where is the money coming from; what is their goal?

In my search for these answers this is what I found. Please post your comments while proving the evidence I found to be false.

ISIS, Israel, Iraq, And Syria: It’s All Part Of The Plan--?
Putin Aide Says Israel is Training ISIS
Putin Aide Says Israel is Training ISIS

Updated: Israeli General Captured in Iraq Confesses to Israel-Isis Coalition\“There is a strong cooperation between MOSSAD and ISIS top military commanders...Israeli advisors helping the Organization on laying out strategic and military plans, and guiding them in the battlefield”
Updated: Israeli General Captured in Iraq Confesses to Israel-Isis Coalition - Veterans Today | News - Military Foreign Affairs Policy

UN Report Reveals How Israel is Coordinating with ISIS Militants Inside Syria
https://tinyurl.com/y8nv6tqw

ISIS is a Creation of the Mossad
ISIS is a Creation of the Israeli Mossad - NODISINFO

If you find this unbelievable, just saying so isn’t enough.

Please prove it here and now!

 

[chuckpeterson]

I wouldn't care much about that distinction, though, simply because there are fewer Jews and inconsiderable amounts of Jewish terrorism on this world.
The same cannot be said of Islam.

The true story not told in the western press

Hagana, Irgun and Stern gangs who threw bombs into buses, assassinated British and other officials and murdered Palestinians way before the Palestinians retaliated in kind. (what goes around comes around)https://rense.com//general21/pastzionist.htm

FIRST ACTS OF TERRORISM, COINING THE PHRASE

November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.

July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem,.,.,killing or injuring more than 200 persons.

October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. (The Sunday Times, Sept. 24, 1972, p.8)

December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.

December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa ; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.

January 5, 1948. The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons.

January 7, 1948. Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, 3 of them while trying to escape. Further casualties, including the murder of a British officer near Hebron, were reported from different parts of the country.

January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.

February 15, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blew up several houses, killing 11 Arabs, including 4 children.

March 3, 1948. Heavy damage was done to the Arab-owned Salam building in Haifa by Zionists who drove an army lorry ( truck) up to the building and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives; casualties numbered 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured.

March 22, 1948. A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Four members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and abandoned the vehicles before the explosion.

March 31, 1948. The Cairo-Haifa Express was mined, for the second time in a month, by an electronically-detonated land mine near Benyamina, killing 40 persons and wounding 60 others.

April 9, 1948. A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children. Older men and young women were paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.

April 16, 1948. Zionists attacked the former British army camp at Tel Litvinsky, killing 90 Arabs there.

April 19, 1948. Fourteen Arabs were killed in a house in Tiberias, which was blown up by Zionist terrorists.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

If this doesn’t sicken you then you are part of the problem.

But don’t just reject or accept what I have posted.

Google “Israel shooting children”

Google “Israel illegal settlements”

Once done, come back and try to defend what you saw/read------

 

[Strathos]

Israel created and is funding a terrorist group determined to wipe them off the map and force everyone to bow down to a global Muslim Caliphate. Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

 

[Tanj]

Once done, come back and try to defend what you saw/read------

You were correct mr thread necromancer, I went and googled those things, and I still have no way to defend your post containing links to the 1940s. I agree with you that your post is in fact indefensible.

 

[chuckpeterson]

Israel created and is funding a terrorist group determined to wipe them off the map and force everyone to bow down to a global Muslim Caliphate. Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

Actually it does if your aim is to create conflicts that generate conflicts between themselves instead of at you.

 

[chuckpeterson]

I agree with you that your post is in fact indefensible.

If that is all you have for a rebuttal then my friend, you lost the battle and don't even know it. (yet)