ISIS and God

variant · Apr 25, 2015

Achilles6129 said:
That would be the wanton destruction of evil people, right?

The story doesn't explain exactly.

We are to take the word of a God who wiped out nearly all of humanity in a fit that they totally all deserved it, even the small children.

variant · Apr 25, 2015

durangodawood said:
The conclusion of the Noah story show God forgoing genocidal solutions to the general evil of man.

Which leads to the question of why such a futile and violent act would be undertaken.

ebia · Apr 25, 2015

variant said:
Which leads to the question of why such a futile and violent act would be undertaken.

Was it?

variant · Apr 25, 2015

ebia said:
Was it?

Undertaken, or futile?

ebia · Apr 25, 2015

variant said:
Undertaken, or futile?

Undertaken

variant · Apr 25, 2015

ebia said:
Undertaken

No probably not.

ebia · Apr 25, 2015

Then it doesn't make much sense to ask why it was undertaken.

bhsmte · Apr 25, 2015

ebia said:
Then it doesn't make much sense to ask why it was undertaken.

What do you think was the motivation and intent behind the author who wrote the story?

mindlight · Apr 25, 2015

Achilles6129 said:
Hello all,

It seems that every day we read of some new shocking brutality that ISIS has committed against one of their victims. If the reports are true, they engage in torture, murderous executions, the sexual slavery of women and children, and many other awful brutalities. My question, however, revolves around ISIS and an understanding of theology. Does the existence of a group like ISIS cause you to doubt/question God or does/did it even drive you to outright atheism? We could consider the following points:

1) Obviously, God has refused to intervene to stop ISIS
2) God created all the ISIS members (genetically speaking) and knew what they would do prior them even being born
3) And, of course, God could easily rescue the ISIS' victims of murder/sexual slavery and has not done so
4) When we come to Christian theology, Jesus Christ died on the cross for everyone (this would include ISIS members) and offers them forgiveness if they obey his commands - is this justified?

In short, what theological conclusions can you draw from the existence of a group like ISIS?

God allows extreme expressions of evil for a great variety of reasons in scripture. But these do not last as the collapse of the evil empire of atheistic communism in the old USSR demonstrated so clearly. When they are broken and the dust blows through the ruins of their once mighty cities then people proclaim the glory and goodness of the God that led them to judgment.

The existence of such evil is to me a proof for the existence of God. Since evil can only destroy and seems in this case to do so in a systematic and "intelligent" manner we can surmise there must be a greater creative intelligence that created the things and people this evil seeks to wipe out of existence.

I suppose Westerners are especially offended by the apparent contempt for human life and choices of this group and are thereby blinded to their theological motivations and passion. We shall all die the only question is how and when we will face our deaths. ISIS have telescoped this into such a short time frame and forced the question uncomfortably on those who expected to live long boring lives and die doped up and alone in some hospital.

Their "Divine madness" when it comes to the killing of others is actually demonic in my view as the dignity of every human being is clear in Christian theology. They kill on the basis of a false world view and they violate the dignity and choices of others with contempt because they see nothing of the divine in people who do not know God as they think he is. But actually atheistic regimes like Communism in the USSR and China were far worse in terms of body count.

ebia · Apr 25, 2015

bhsmte said:
What do you think was the motivation and intent behind the author who wrote the story?

To answer the question "why doesn't God just wipe out evil"

bhsmte · Apr 25, 2015

ebia said:
To answer the question "why doesn't God just wipe out evil"

How exactly does it answer that question?

ebia · Apr 25, 2015

bhsmte said:
How exactly does it answer that question?

With a story. Which is generally how most ancient cultures(rightly, IMO) understood to be the best way of addressing big questions.

It's our culture that has wrongly taught itself that stories are only for teaching little kids.

variant · Apr 25, 2015

ebia said:
Then it doesn't make much sense to ask why it was undertaken.

Then the story can't be pointed to as an example of why God does or doesn't do things.

ebia · Apr 25, 2015

variant said:
Then the story can't be pointed to as an example of why God does or doesn't do things.

Not an example but a narrative explanation.

variant · Apr 25, 2015

ebia said:
Not an example but a narrative explanation.

Right but how does the story even help us?

bhsmte · Apr 25, 2015

ebia said:
Not an example but a narrative explanation.

Do you think this story was divinely inspired by God?

ebia · Apr 25, 2015

bhsmte said:
Do you think this story was divinely inspired by God?

Yes

ebia · Apr 25, 2015

variant said:
Right but how does the story even help us?

It gives us a narrative answer to the question.

variant · Apr 25, 2015

ebia said:
It gives us a narrative answer to the question.

It doesn't really answer the question though, as the Bible gives us hundreds of narratives for how involved God wishes to be and under what circumstances.

ebia · Apr 25, 2015

variant said:
It doesn't really answer the question though, as the Bible gives us hundreds of narratives for how involved God wishes to be and under what circumstances.

Eh?

I am suggesting that, if read as such, the Noah story gives a very clear narrative answer to the question "why doesn't God just wipe out evil".

I suspect your problem is that you don't want a narrative answer. You want a propositional answer, or at least a narrative that can be translated into a propositional answer as though narrative were second best. I suggest that narrative is, in fact, the better form for addressing such questions, as most human cultures have thought, and that translating them makes about as much sense as trying to turn the instructions for safely running a nuclear power-station into fairy-tale.

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