Isaiah 7:14 Confusion

[MinisterTony]

Did anyone say or even imply this?

Yes, many people have implied and suggested that the "proper translation" is not Virgin. So my question and challenge to people is...where does Bible mention Mary having had sexual intercourse before she conceived Jesus?

It's a valid question that nobody seems to be able to answer.

 

[Maverick1972]

It's a valid question that nobody seems to be able to answer.

Tony, I think it's just that the framework of the question is ill-conceived and nobody wants to get into a debate about semantics.

You can say that about anything. Why doesn't it talk about the trinity in the bible? Why is it never mentioned? Why doesn't it speak about Jesus' younger years or teens? Can you prove he was a teenager? The bible doesn't mention it. Can you prove the trinity? The bible doesn't mention it.

We break it down through hermeneutics and logical deduction.

 

[dies-l]

Yes, many people have implied and suggested that the "proper translation" is not Virgin. So my question and challenge to people is...where does Bible mention Mary having had sexual intercourse before she conceived Jesus?

It's a valid question that nobody seems to be able to answer.

Because it's not really relevant to the discussion. The issue is not with Matthew or Luke, which both clearly indicate that Mary was chaste. The issue is with Isaiah, which most Christians understand as pointing to Mary. However, we cannot infer from the context that Isaiah, himself knew the exact meaning of his own prophesy. So, as one of those people who believes that the proper translation of the Isaiah prophesy is "young woman" (with "virgin" likely implied), I don't see any implication here that Mary was not a virgin herself, only that Isaiah's prophesy was not directly speaking to the sexual chastity of the woman in his prophesy. Earlier in this thread, you indicated the difference between exegesis and eisegesis. The common assumption that almah clearly refers to a sexual virgin is a good example of eisegesis, as it relies upon our understanding of the fulfillment of the prophesy being read into the prophesy itself. Isaiah's prophesy is strong enough on its face without having to read more into it than is already there.

 

[His_disciple3]

Romans 8:5-6
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
KJV


the ISSUE is not an interperation, I think Tony hit on the Issue softly without trying to make all you others look bad. thank you Tony for trying to point out the main thing here. I think the main thread was a translational thread about which translation is right!! But the Holy Bible Is Spiritual we must think spiritually to understand it. The birth and conception of The Christ, would need to be a spectacular miracle of God. It is not or ever will be a spectacular miracle of God if a young woman brought forth a child, a common miracle perhaps, young women bring forth babies every day and life itself is a miracle. But Now to Have a Virgin have Birth, WOW and double WOW, now thats a MIRACLE!! and the right translation would state this. you guys a lot people speak and read and understand english, hebrew and Greek, but not all will understand the Bible no matter what language it is written, what happen in this thread is most are trying to understand, no wait most are trying to explain something spiritually with our fleshly eyes, and understanding, and this is where all the confusion comes into spiritual matters of scriptures. If you want to believe that a young woman can have Birth thats you. But My God, used a Virgin to Bring forth His Only Begotten SON ( and He was the Begotten Of God )!!

1 Corinthians 2:10-16
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
KJV

 

[His_disciple3]

So, as one of those people who believes that the proper translation of the Isaiah prophesy is "young woman" (with "virgin" likely implied),

 I don't see any implication here that Mary was not a virgin herself

, .

you really don't see any implications here. If Mary was not a virgin would this not make her unclean, and take away from the pureness of the Mother of the Christ, the Holy one of Israel, Emmanuel!

 

[jeremyloo]

Hi,

I think we can link this to Gen 3 where God prophesy on the birth of Jesus.

Gen 3:15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

We know that woman has no seed. Only man. In order that the woman's will come forth, He has to ensure that the woman has not been "touch" by man, thus the virgin birth.

Shalom,

Jeremy Loo

 

[dies-l]

you really don't see any implications here. If Mary was not a virgin would this not make her unclean, and take away from the pureness of the Mother of the Christ, the Holy one of Israel, Emmanuel!

Luke and Matthew are clear that Mary was a virgin. We are not debating those passages, and we are not debating at all whether Mary was a virgin. So, no, the proper translation of almah in Isaiah 7:14 has absolutely no implications about the pureness of the Mother of Christ. It merely goes to the specificity of Isaiah's prophesy about the woman who would give birth to Emmanuel.