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Yeah, well, humans didn't evolve in the arctic or antarctic regions, and humans who do live in those regions frequently develop sleeping problems.Actually, light is not the primary element in the governance of the human timeclock, insofar as not all parts of the earth (let's say portions of Alaska) have a standard light/darkness cycle. Some portions of the earth have several months of light and several months of darkness, for example. In this case, the natural biorhythms are more predominated by the adrenal cortex and an internal timeclock that has nothing to do with light/darkness.
Okay. Agreed. Intelligence and communication are ideally coexistant. Although they may cycle in and out of phase together.for there to be intelligence, there must be communication.
The planets within the solar system are affected by the sun, with various moons affected by the planets. But what is the sun itself affected by? Does it just float in midspace? Or is it subtly affected by some external force? Perhaps our galaxy, for example?Our planet goes through its motions without being affected much at all by any other planets in the solar system.
Inconclusive. And probably not likely. We don't have enough data to positively know either way.Our solar system goes through its motions as if no other stars existed at all. Our galaxy goes through its motions as if no other galaxy existed.
Not within our current data framework, but this does not rule the possibility out.There is, quite simply, no basis for the communication required for intelligence.
The greater part of our communications with others is at a subconscious level. Not all communication is conscious. As far as your suggested scenario, however, we are indirectly connected to every human being on the earth. What happens in the middle east, for example, affects me in the americas, albeit indirectly.For example, how can I and Pierre the random Frenchman be two parts of the same organism if we have no knowledge of one another's existence at any level?
Light is not? That is new.......Hmm, let me pull out my eco-physiology book on that one...it's been a while.....
You are focused on a single evolutionary path. I suggest that there are several.Yeah, well, humans didn't evolve in the arctic or antarctic regions,
And? Sleep problems are existant within all regions.and humans who do live in those regions frequently develop sleeping problems.
You are focused on a single evolutionary path. I suggest that there are several.
And? Sleep problems are existant within all regions.
Rhythmic sleep problems can certainly take place when the body is subjeced to that which is unfamiliar. But I suggest that the body is also capable of adaptative reprogramming when so subjected. Athletic training falls into the same category, even being deemed 'unnaturally forced' by some. But there also exist healthy recovery methods to aid adaptative responses, despite rigorous periods of progressive overload.He meant sleep problems related to day night rhythm.
The typical therapy for people having issues with sleep problems in the arctic and antarctic regions is to subject them to therapy sessions which provide a consistent day/night cycle.Rhythmic sleep problems can certainly take place when the body is subjeced to that which is unfamiliar. But I suggest that the body is also capable of adaptative reprogramming when so subjected. Athletic training falls into the same category, even being deemed 'unnaturally forced' by some. But there also exist healthy recovery methods to aid adaptative responses, despite rigorous periods of progressive overload.
I just don't really see it as a very high probability that we will ever know what happened in history to create the world and life in it
Hence my point. Consistent day/night cycles in these regions have nothing to do with light and darkness. Rather, the adrenal cortex is consistently programmed in the absence of light and darkness fluctuations. However, this does not rule out the potential for progressive overload within the adrenal cortex itself.The typical therapy for people having issues with sleep problems in the arctic and antarctic regions is to subject them to therapy sessions which provide a consistent day/night cycle.
Sure there are several. But most die out.You are focused on a single evolutionary path. I suggest that there are several.
That's not a possibility. Try asking a computer to compute if you remove the RAM.Okay. Agreed. Intelligence and communication are ideally coexistant. Although they may cycle in and out of phase together.
Sure, they're heated by the sun, and orbit it due to the sun's gravity, but that's not communication. And the sun does, of course, feel the gravitational attraction of everything else in the universe (gravity is an infinite range force), but that doesn't mean that the sun's behavior itself would change one iota if every other object in the universe winked out of existence entirely.The planets within the solar system are affected by the sun, with various moons affected by the planets. But what is the sun itself affected by? Does it just float in midspace? Or is it subtly affected by some external force? Perhaps our galaxy, for example?
Of course we do. There are only two forces that are infinite-range: electromagnetism and gravity. Gravity is so incredibly weak that it is highly unlikely that we could make any measurement within our own solar system that could possibly detect the nearest star through gravity alone. So there's no reasonable way that there is any communication going on due to gravity.Inconclusive. And probably not likely. We don't have enough data to positively know either way.
Yeah, there was a reason why I deleted that last statement. It is possible for us to think of the Earth as a whole as an organism. But that's because there are a huge number of highly complex interractions between different locations on the Earth.The greater part of our communications with others is at a subconscious level. Not all communication is conscious. As far as your suggested scenario, however, we are indirectly connected to every human being on the earth. What happens in the middle east, for example, affects me in the americas, albeit indirectly.
My, aren't we optimistic? Are you arguing in favor of nihilism now?Sure there are several. But most die out.
That is a possibility.That's not a possibility.
Please stay within the context of the discussion. The multiverse is vastly more complex than your personal computer.Try asking a computer to compute if you remove the RAM.
Sure it's communication.Sure, they're heated by the sun, and orbit it due to the sun's gravity, but that's not communication.
Then that's communication.And the sun does, of course, feel the gravitational attraction of everything else in the universe
And?(gravity is an infinite range force),
Fanciful speculation. You seem to have the complexity of the multiverse all figured out. I suggest that the earth might have a problem if the rest of the universe blinked out of existence. You may be thinking of a Star Trek episode.but that doesn't mean that the sun's behavior itself would change one iota if every other object in the universe winked out of existence entirely.
Nope. Try space and time. I believe that your perspective is much too narrow.There are only two forces that are infinite-range: electromagnetism and gravity.
I haven't mentioned gravity. You did.Gravity is so incredibly weak that it is highly unlikely that we could make any measurement within our own solar system that could possibly detect the nearest star through gravity alone. So there's no reasonable way that there is any communication going on due to gravity.
Again, I haven't mentioned electromagnetic force. You did.The electromagnetic force is much stronger, and the electromagnetic waves which we witness (light) can be seen across the full expanse of the universe. But the luminosity of the stars is so vastly overshadowed by the luminosity of the sun that stars might as well not even exist, as far as all reactions on Earth are concerned. The only thing that gives stars any importance is our own observation that they exist, and the meaning we place on them, not any actual effect they have on the biosphere.
Space and time.Even if you could posit the existence of some fifth force with infinite range,
Not within the context of multidimensional existence.that force would have to be even weaker than gravity for us to not have seen it,
Not within the context of your perception, that is. Please qualify.and thus would not change things one iota.
I'm not certain what statement you're referring to.Yeah, there was a reason why I deleted that last statement.
That's what I was suggesting, but you still offer qualms like it's bad or something.It is possible for us to think of the Earth as a whole as an organism.
And you believe that this is bad.But that's because there are a huge number of highly complex interractions between different locations on the Earth.
Not that you know of.There are no such complex interactions between the Earth and Mars, or Venus, or Saturn.
How did we get on Jupiter?Jupiter has a mild effect due to its disruption of the orbits of the asteroids, but that's about it.
I was moreso referencing the sun.For the most part, the Earth wouldn't even care whether or not here was anything else in the solar system
Which is virtually nil at this point. But let's spend billions on a shot in the dark, while much of the world starves from famine.(the only difference for the Earth would be the frequency of asteroid/comet hits).
Again, as far as you know.And just because there is a lot of communication that goes between people in contact on a subconscious level doesn't mean that we can communicate subconsciously with people that we don't have any contact with.
Actually, it speaks more of the low evolutionary development of our species when relatively compared against the amount of brain matter that operates consciously as opposed to subconsciously.The fact that a lot of communication is subconscious says nothing more than we are so used to communicating with people that we don't even bother to think how we do it.
That's nice. We agree on something at least. I had not suggested that subconscious communication doesn't have physical expression. But you can attempt to make your case all the same if you like.It doesn't mean the communication isn't physical: there is communication in tone of speech, in body language, in gestures.
Er, no. Most species do die out, leaving no offspring. Here's a quick read on the subject:My, aren't we optimistic? Are you arguing in favor of nihilism now?
Scientifically we'd have a conundrum trying to explain it. But as long as the Earth, our moon, and our sun still existed, we'd have no lasting problems.Fanciful speculation. You seem to have the complexity of the multiverse all figured out. I suggest that the earth might have a problem if the rest of the universe blinked out of existence. You may be thinking of a Star Trek episode.
Spacetime is not a force. It's simply a property of our universe.Nope. Try space and time. I believe that your perspective is much too narrow.
This makes no difference. Since we have not yet detected a fifth force, it must either be short range or very weak. Some of the extra forces that would arise in the context of extra dimensions would be short-range. Because it mus be either short range or very weak, it can have no tangible effect on reality today, and thus cannot provide a means of communication. This is simply because the currently-known physics describes reality to tremendous accuracy, more than enough to explain all of chemistry.Not within the context of multidimensional existence.
My assumption is that your education closes your mind to alternate perspectives.
We are living beings and our whole life depends on our genes...
Haze,
That mindset can ruin peoples' lives.
I've read of mothers (and fathers) who insist that their children marry only those who have "superior genes", only to watch in horror as Johnny wants to be a ballerina, or Suzie wants to join the armed forces.
Wait a second.DON'T you put words in my mouth that I didn't say. I said:our whole life depends on our genes AND surroundings How dare you to imply that I am for surperior genes. I have a congenital disorder myself and yes, these genes and my surroudings the environment made me who I am....and I am darn proud of who I am......
I said genes and the surroundings......you [censor - wash my mouth]!
Just chill out! I wasn't talking about you (or anyone in particular). I looked for the article so I could post it, but couldn't find it.
I agree with you that our lives depend on our genes - like that's a mystery?
Heaven forbid I should imply you're for superior genes.
I have a nephew myself who is going on 12 years old and has a 2nd-grade mentality. He can't do anything on his own and is very destructive - requiring attention 24/7. The doctors say he has autism or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by belladonic-haze
We are living beings and our whole life depends on our genes...
Haze,
That mindset can ruin peoples' lives.
I've read of mothers (and fathers) who insist that their children marry only those who have "superior genes", only to watch in horror as Johnny wants to be a ballerina, or Suzie wants to join the armed forces.
While non-essential gene therapy in prenatals is quite unethical, I'm confused as to why parents are horrified at an acrobatic son, or a patriotic and incredibly brave daughter?I've read of mothers (and fathers) who insist that their children marry only those who have "superior genes", only to watch in horror as Johnny wants to be a ballerina, or Suzie wants to join the armed forces.
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