Is voluntary slavery wrong?

[Gabe7]

If someone is poor and sell themselves into slavery in order to get food to eat and have a place to live, is it wrong? If so, who is wrong and why?

 

[JadeTigress]

I don't think it's wrong. What usually makes slavery wrong (to me) is it being involuntary and the horrible treatment of the slaves.

But someone voluntarily becomes a slave and they're treated well, and are able to stop being a slave if/when they choose, then I truly don't see any harm in that.

 

[jpcedotal]

There are stories about slaves once freed after the Civil War staying with their Masters of their own free-will. Now sure some of this was because that is all these new free-men knew and/or didn't have anywhere else to go...I am not going to argue that point, but there were slaves who were treated fairly and respected their slave masters enough that they wanted to stay where they were.

Stories even where the freed slave asked to be buried at the ex-owner's feet and were.

So, I vote no, it is not wrong to agree to work for someone in exchange for food, shelter, and safety.

 

[Smileandtheworld]

I don't think it's wrong. What usually makes slavery wrong (to me) is it being involuntary and the horrible treatment of the slaves.

But someone voluntarily becomes a slave and they're treated well, and are able to stop being a slave if/when they choose, then I truly don't see any harm in that.

Is "being a slave" really a choice when absolute poverty is the 90% likely consequence of not being a slave?

 

[Gabe7]

Is "being a slave" really a choice when absolute poverty is the 90% likely consequence of not being a slave?

If it were not for social welfare than industrialized countries can less and less afford I suspect slavery would become hip again.

 

[Skavau]

That would be servant-hood. If they can't leave when they want to though, it would become slavery.

 

[DaisyDay]

I don't think it's wrong. What usually makes slavery wrong (to me) is it being involuntary and the horrible treatment of the slaves.

But someone voluntarily becomes a slave and they're treated well, and are able to stop being a slave if/when they choose, then I truly don't see any harm in that.

How is that slavery and not employment?

The US (and most if not all first world countries) have minimum workplace and wage laws.

It may not be immoral to be a slave, but it is immoral to own one or more.

 

[Steve Petersen]

If it were not for social welfare than industrialized countries can less and less afford I suspect slavery would become hip again.

What do you call it when someone has a 'right' to someone else's labor?

Slavery.

 

[Martingale]

If someone is poor and sell themselves into slavery in order to get food to eat and have a place to live, is it wrong? If so, who is wrong and why?

what, exactly, do you mean by "slavery"? slavery has been illegal everywhere in the US since the 13th amendment was passed and outlawed everywhere else on the planet. you couldn't sell yourself into slavery if you wanted to.

"voluntary slavery" doesn't even make sense.

 

[NvxiaLee]

How is that slavery and not employment?

Slavery is involuntary employment, such as being drafted into the military. Voluntary slavery is when someone who chooses to give up their right to quit, such as signing a contract requiring future performance.

If legal, you can increase the value of your services if you volunteer to give up you right to quit. With this method, you can also get paid upfront, rather than after services performed.

 

[KrimsonDraegon]

With peace,

Religiously speaking, particularly on slavery in the Tanakh:

It is permissible to work a non-Jewish servant harshly. Yet, although this is the law, the way of the pious and the wise is to be compassionate and to pursue justice, not to overburden or oppress a servant, and to provide them from every dish and every drink.
The early sages would give their servants from every dish on their table. They would feed their animals and their servants before sitting to their own meals. Does it not say (Psalms 123:2), "As the eyes of the servant to the hand of his master; as the eyes of the maid to her mistress [so our eyes are towards the L-rd our G-d...]"?
So, too, you should not denigrate a servant, neither physically nor verbally. The Torah made him your servant to do work, not to be disgraced. Do not treat him with constant screaming and anger, rather speak with him pleasantly and listen to his complaints. Such were the good ways in which Job took pride when he said, "Did I ever despise the judgment of my servant and my maid when they argued with me? Did not my Maker make him, too, in the belly; did not the same One form us both in the womb?"
For anger and cruelty are only found among other nations. The children of Abraham, our father--and they are Israel, to whom the Holy One, blessed be He, has provided the goodness of Torah and commanded us righteous judgments and statutes--they are compassionate to all. This is one of the attributes of the Holy One, blessed be He, that we are commanded to emulate (Psalms 145:9): "And He has compassion for all He has made."
Furthermore, all who have compassion will be treated compassionately, as was stated (Deuteronomy 13:18), "He will give you compassion and He will have compassion upon you and multiply you."

Further, it is outlined in the Tanakh (Old Testament) that slaves and servants are to be treated with respect. They are not to be worked on the Sabbath, they are not to be overburdened or abused either physically, sexually, emotionally, or otherwise. A slave that has these things brought against them are immediately freed. A slave must be freed, and may return to their master of their own accord, every jubilee (seventh) year and must be allowed to buy their freedom if they so choose and possess the appropriate resources.

Biblically speaking, this is not such a bad deal for one who would otherwise starve or succumb to the elements, no?

~ Shaeykh

 

[Martingale]

...
Biblically speaking, this is not such a bad deal for one who would otherwise starve or succumb to the elements, no?

~ Shaeykh

no. slavery these days means human trafficking for forced labor or sex, often the lure is to escape starvation. typically the victims are minors, almost always women and girls. its a big problem worldwide.

pretending that is or could be anything else is naive and wrong.

 

[KrimsonDraegon]

no. slavery these days means human trafficking for forced labor or sex, often the lure is to escape starvation. typically the victims are minors, almost always women and girls. its a big problem worldwide.

pretending that is or could be anything else is naive and wrong.

Respected brother,

Surely you noticed I was referring to cases of Biblical slavery or slavery held against Biblical standards?

Secularly speaking, where slavery is, as you rightly point out, often misused as a form of human trafficking, etc. I would decry such acts.

~ Shaeykh

 

[grasping the after wind]

Is "being a slave" really a choice when absolute poverty is the 90% likely consequence of not being a slave?

Yes it is definitely a choice.

 

[grasping the after wind]

With peace,

Religiously speaking, particularly on slavery in the Tanakh:



Further, it is outlined in the Tanakh (Old Testament) that slaves and servants are to be treated with respect. They are not to be worked on the Sabbath, they are not to be overburdened or abused either physically, sexually, emotionally, or otherwise. A slave that has these things brought against them are immediately freed. A slave must be freed, and may return to their master of their own accord, every jubilee (seventh) year and must be allowed to buy their freedom if they so choose and possess the appropriate resources.

Biblically speaking, this is not such a bad deal for one who would otherwise starve or succumb to the elements, no?

~ Shaeykh

Live free or die. Death is not the worst fate that can befall us. IMO it is immoral to own slaves and immoral to sell oneself into slavery. All men are created equal ,endowed by their Creator with certain rights, and among those rights is liberty. What God has given, one should not treat with such disrespect as to give it away for something as mundane as food, shelter or security.

 

[Martingale]

Respected brother,

Surely you noticed I was referring to cases of Biblical slavery or slavery held against Biblical standards?

Secularly speaking, where slavery is, as you rightly point out, often misused as a form of human trafficking, etc. I would decry such acts.

~ Shaeykh

I read exactly what you wrote. that kind of slavery doesn't exist, if it ever did.

 

[KrimsonDraegon]

Live free or die. Death is not the worst fate that can befall us. IMO it is immoral to own slaves and immoral to sell oneself into slavery. All men are created equal ,endowed by their Creator with certain rights, and among those rights is liberty. What God has given, one should not treat with such disrespect as to give it away for something as mundane as food, shelter or security.

Peace,

Yet the Almighty One, in His infinite wisdom, condones slavery in Ancient Israel. Pray, would you, perhaps, enlighten me on this point?

Most respectfully,
S.

 

[Martingale]

Peace,

Yet the Almighty One, in His infinite wisdom, condones slavery in Ancient Israel. Pray, would you, perhaps, enlighten me on this point?

Most respectfully,
S.

for those of us not living in the bronze age, or who aren't confusing slavery then with slavery now, your question doesn't make sense.

 

[KrimsonDraegon]

for those of us not living in the bronze age, or who aren't confusing slavery then with slavery now, your question doesn't make sense.

Respected brother,

I am not asking a trick question. I am but a humble student seeking to learn. Would you not indulge my curiosity?

I see that you are a Christian and I am asking your interpretation and/or opinions on the Biblically mandated slavery found in the Tanakh. (Old Testament)

I understand that these boards can develop a sense of paranoia in a member as they fear that their ideologies are about to be attacked or are under constant attack. I sympathize and apologize if it seems I, myself, am coming across as though I am about to attack your beliefs. I assure you, and you may hold me to this, that I will not. I may have further questions but they are solely for my own education.

Most respectfully,
S.

 

[Martingale]

...I am but a humble student seeking to learn. Would you not indulge my curiosity?...

no.