Is video game violence sinful?

[Fenny the Fox]

For real. He is actually a really smart guy, people just ought to look some of his interviews up. And he pretty much admits he finds all the controversy funny.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

It seems like many people are dismissing violent games as being okay. Didn't the Columbine shooters use skills taught in violent games to shoot the kids at their school? I recall a news story where such a claim was made.

Journalists make a lot of sensational claims, not all of them true. As selfinflikted said, people also blamed Marilyn Manson's music. People blame television, the decline of good, Christian morals in American society, the rise of homosexuals, etc. But there's no evidence that any of these things caused, or even influence, the shootings.

The sad truth is that, despite how desperate people are for a scapegoat to blame, sometimes bad things happen without any good reason. The shootings are undoubtedly a tragedy, but there is not necessarily a cause.

 

[BleedingHeart]

I wrote a paper on the subject of violent video games and its effect on human aggression, I found in my pursuits that there IS a correlation between violent video games and aggressive behavior.

Social cognitive theory, conceived by psychologist Albert Bandura, states that personal experiences and observations (like participating and observing violence in a video game) could lead to increase in aggressive behavior. This is because the violence portrayed in video games is generally rewarded, and behavior that is rewarded is more likely to either be 1) imitated or 2) mentally accepted. Now of course, this is more for kids than adults, as their minds are still developing, since an adult has a more developed mental model that is better able to resist the message.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

Most violent video games aren't made for children - hence the rating system.

 

[BleedingHeart]

Most violent video games aren't made for children - hence the rating system.

True dat. But I'm talking about whether they have an effect on humans. Yes they do, but for children more so than adults. Hence the rating system.

 

[Jade Margery]

I wrote a paper on the subject of violent video games and its effect on human aggression, I found in my pursuits that there IS a correlation between violent video games and aggressive behavior.

Social cognitive theory, conceived by psychologist Albert Bandura, states that personal experiences and observations (like participating and observing violence in a video game) could lead to increase in aggressive behavior. This is because the violence portrayed in video games is generally rewarded, and behavior that is rewarded is more likely to either be 1) imitated or 2) mentally accepted. Now of course, this is more for kids than adults, as their minds are still developing, since an adult has a more developed mental model that is better able to resist the message.

That would seem like an intuitive connection, but do you have any research or studies that support that this is actually what happens instead of what 'could' happen?

I would be interested to read about an unbiased attempt to measure the effects of playing violent video games on crime statistics. (Unbiased in either direction, mind you.) I'm not sure how one would set up such a study though. There would have to be a lot of variables to cover. You can't just pick out a connection and call it proof. Even if we found that children who played violent video games when they were young had a high chance of participating in criminal behavior as adults, the games may be a symptom rather than a cause. After all, games these days have ratings for a reason. A kid playing an M rated game may have careless or neglectful parents--possibly a much bigger factor in what they will grow up to be than what entertains them as children.

Partly I am interested in this because I, and my siblings, have all played violent games from a young age--I was fragging zombies in Quake before I could read. (Despite the best efforts of my poor mother, who did everything she could to prevent us, but it was like trying to clean iron shavings off a magnet.) We are none of us particularly violent human beings now, but I am curious to find out if there is any real truth to the claims and whether the violent gaming had a recognizable effect on our personalities, as opposed to our peers who grew up on wussy Super Mario and Kirby.

 

[No Swansong]

That would seem like an intuitive connection, but do you have any research or studies that support that this is actually what happens instead of what 'could' happen?

I would be interested to read about an unbiased attempt to measure the effects of playing violent video games on crime statistics. (Unbiased in either direction, mind you.) I'm not sure how one would set up such a study though. There would have to be a lot of variables to cover. You can't just pick out a connection and call it proof. Even if we found that children who played violent video games when they were young had a high chance of participating in criminal behavior as adults, the games may be a symptom rather than a cause. After all, games these days have ratings for a reason. A kid playing an M rated game may have careless or neglectful parents--possibly a much bigger factor in what they will grow up to be than what entertains them as children.

Partly I am interested in this because I, and my siblings, have all played violent games from a young age--I was fragging zombies in Quake before I could read. (Despite the best efforts of my poor mother, who did everything she could to prevent us, but it was like trying to clean iron shavings off a magnet.) We are none of us particularly violent human beings now, but I am curious to find out if there is any real truth to the claims and whether the violent gaming had a recognizable effect on our personalities, as opposed to our peers who grew up on wussy Super Mario and Kirby.

I too would be interested in reading more. BleedingHeart has your research been published or peer reviewed?

I would also wonder (just off the top of my head) if the connection is causative or indicative. In other words do the games make kids violent, or are kids who are already violent drawn more towards violent video games?

 

[selfinflikted]

...do the games make kids violent, or are kids who are already violent drawn more towards violent video games?

Was just about to suggest that myself.

 

[The Nihilist]

I wrote a paper on the subject of violent video games and its effect on human aggression, I found in my pursuits that there IS a correlation between violent video games and aggressive behavior.

Social cognitive theory, conceived by psychologist Albert Bandura, states that personal experiences and observations (like participating and observing violence in a video game) could lead to increase in aggressive behavior. This is because the violence portrayed in video games is generally rewarded, and behavior that is rewarded is more likely to either be 1) imitated or 2) mentally accepted. Now of course, this is more for kids than adults, as their minds are still developing, since an adult has a more developed mental model that is better able to resist the message.

Hm. In a lot of violent video games, the violence simply can't be imitated. I mean, in Halo, you run around and shoot aliens with plasma weapons, which is pretty obviously disconnected from everyday life. Does this kind of fantasy violence also correlate with increased aggression?

 

[al_man]

I have played countless amounts of "violent videogames" and have never ever had the urge to go out and kill someone, or even think about it in my head. I play the game to enjoy the story and the experience. If someone has a gi joe and plays with that and he has a knife and a gun and uses it to stab another gi joe should we teach kids that playing with Gi Joe is going to cause them to be violent murderers when they are older? I don't think so.

 

[BleedingHeart]

That would seem like an intuitive connection, but do you have any research or studies that support that this is actually what happens instead of what 'could' happen?

I would be interested to read about an unbiased attempt to measure the effects of playing violent video games on crime statistics. (Unbiased in either direction, mind you.) I'm not sure how one would set up such a study though. There would have to be a lot of variables to cover. You can't just pick out a connection and call it proof. Even if we found that children who played violent video games when they were young had a high chance of participating in criminal behavior as adults, the games may be a symptom rather than a cause. After all, games these days have ratings for a reason. A kid playing an M rated game may have careless or neglectful parents--possibly a much bigger factor in what they will grow up to be than what entertains them as children.

Partly I am interested in this because I, and my siblings, have all played violent games from a young age--I was fragging zombies in Quake before I could read. (Despite the best efforts of my poor mother, who did everything she could to prevent us, but it was like trying to clean iron shavings off a magnet.) We are none of us particularly violent human beings now, but I am curious to find out if there is any real truth to the claims and whether the violent gaming had a recognizable effect on our personalities, as opposed to our peers who grew up on wussy Super Mario and Kirby.

Short answer: Yes suggestive studies, but no conclusive studies.
All the studies I have seen suggest correlations but not necessarily any causations. The thing about social cognitive theory is that Trait, Behavioral, and Environmental determinants are each interdependent on the other. It's completely possible that the relationship between aggression and violent video games go in the other direction. That people that who were generally hostile to some extent gravitate toward violent video games. Even the psychologists themselves admit that there needs to be more longitudinal studies on the subject.

 

[BleedingHeart]

Hm. In a lot of violent video games, the violence simply can't be imitated. I mean, in Halo, you run around and shoot aliens with plasma weapons, which is pretty obviously disconnected from everyday life. Does this kind of fantasy violence also correlate with increased aggression?

It's disconnected from life to a limited extent. I can't shoot an alien with a plasma rifle but I can sure shoot a human with a ballistic one and in the same manner. The observation of violence is still there. The motor reproduction of aiming and pulling the trigger is still there. Motivation is still there as well though it can vary: from disliking the alien/human, perceiving them as your enemy, to perceiving some reward in the end. It is these steps that define imitation, not the superficial context of what kind of weapon you are using or the species of the person you are shooting.

ESRB Fantasy violence: violent actions of a fantasy nature, involving human or non-human characters in situations easily distinguishable from real life.
I don't think this rating could be applied to Halo. You shoot a living being with a gun and blood comes out; that's really more Blood violence/blood and gore. A better example of fantasy violence would be the Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. When enemies are hit with a sword, they reel back as if punched, and light forms between the enemy and sword as a hit marker.

Al Man: Okay. Not all people will react to something the same way.

Christian guy who's name I forget: Not published. Just an essay I turned in for a grade. I hope that doesn't make anybody think I'm a know it all college student or anything. Some sources that people might want to check out is reference book Playing Video Games: Motives, Responses, Consequences by Vorderer and Bryant.
The correlative study I used was The effects of violent video game habits on adolescent hostility,
aggressive behaviors, and school performance by Douglas A. Gentile,*, Paul J. Lynch, Jennifer Ruh Linder, David A. Walsh.
Social cognitive theory by Albert Bandura is also worth a look, because I believe it best explains the relationship between aggression and video games.
I can upload my paper to the internet and leave a link if you guys are really interested.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Typically when I'm shooting stuff in a video game, it's zombies.

 

[BleedingHeart]

"A kid playing an M rated game may have careless or neglectful parents--possibly a much bigger factor in what they will grow up to be than what entertains them as children."

Agreed. Parental guidance and support is a huge (but not an ultimate) factor in one's success as an adult.
Like someone else said, it's a number of factors that lead to certain behavior--not just one.

 

[No Swansong]

It's disconnected from life to a limited extent. I can't shoot an alien with a plasma rifle but I can sure shoot a human with a ballistic one and in the same manner. The observation of violence is still there. The motor reproduction of aiming and pulling the trigger is still there. Motivation is still there as well though it can vary: from disliking the alien/human, perceiving them as your enemy, to perceiving some reward in the end. It is these steps that define imitation, not the superficial context of what kind of weapon you are using or the species of the person you are shooting.

ESRB Fantasy violence: violent actions of a fantasy nature, involving human or non-human characters in situations easily distinguishable from real life.
I don't think this rating could be applied to Halo. You shoot a living being with a gun and blood comes out; that's really more Blood violence/blood and gore. A better example of fantasy violence would be the Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. When enemies are hit with a sword, they reel back as if punched, and light forms between the enemy and sword as a hit marker.

Al Man: Okay. Not all people will react to something the same way.

Christian guy who's name I forget: Not published. Just an essay I turned in for a grade. I hope that doesn't make anybody think I'm a know it all college student or anything. Some sources that people might want to check out is reference book Playing Video Games: Motives, Responses, Consequences by Vorderer and Bryant.
The correlative study I used was The effects of violent video game habits on adolescent hostility,
aggressive behaviors, and school performance by Douglas A. Gentile,*, Paul J. Lynch, Jennifer Ruh Linder, David A. Walsh.
Social cognitive theory by Albert Bandura is also worth a look, because I believe it best explains the relationship between aggression and video games.
I can upload my paper to the internet and leave a link if you guys are really interested.

I would be interested in reading your paper my friend. If you don't wish to post it I could send you my e-mail and you could just send it to me. I am familiar with Bandura in name only but I am somewhat more familiar with the work by Gentile, Lynch,Linder and Walsh.

On a side note I didn't intend my query to be a challenge, I didn't realize until after I read it that it could appear to be one.

 

[BleedingHeart]

No harm done. Give me your email address and I can send it to you that way.

 

[seekr]

Hm. In a lot of violent video games, the violence simply can't be imitated. I mean, in Halo, you run around and shoot aliens with plasma weapons, which is pretty obviously disconnected from everyday life. Does this kind of fantasy violence also correlate with increased aggression?

Since it has not been addressed yet, allow me to remind you that using Halo as an example actually helps disprove your point.

While half of the weapons are "alien fantasy" weapons that do very painful things to their victims, the other half of the available weapons in the game are the weapons employed by the very human military force such such as shotguns, pistols, etc. In addition, the protagonists themselves usually show strong preference to a human rifle of some sort. And yes, while you do fight aliens, these are bipedial, english speaking aliens who could very easily be mistaken as humans in the game's sci-fi setting. And let's not forget that an entire alien race that you've shot at and killed before become your allies during Halo 3.

I'm not attacking you for playing Halo, I'm just saying that it certainly is a bad example for violence "that can't be imitated".

While the Bible says that violence when will be gone afterwards, the bible also has a lot of examples of violence used right (like in the case of Jesus driving out the moneychangers for example). Personally, I don't think playing Halo would make me sinful, but as a Christian I also have to remember Paul's words that even if we do something that we don't consider to be sin, if it causes a brother to stumble we should avoid it for their sake.

That said, no one who plays video games is actively wishing violence on people - they're playing a game and unless you have pre-existing mental problems, it's easy to differentiate.

No one? That's a little too hasty of a conclusion to make, isn't it?

 

[DontTreadOnMike]

That.

It's like refusing to play chess because it advocates regicide.

Psh. That's WHY I play chess.

 

[Smileandtheworld]

Short answer: Yes suggestive studies, but no conclusive studies.
All the studies I have seen suggest correlations but not necessarily any causations. The thing about social cognitive theory is that Trait, Behavioral, and Environmental determinants are each interdependent on the other. It's completely possible that the relationship between aggression and violent video games go in the other direction. That people that who were generally hostile to some extent gravitate toward violent video games. Even the psychologists themselves admit that there needs to be more longitudinal studies on the subject.

Seriously, never heard of Bandura?

YouTube - ‪Bobo Doll experiment (Bandura)‬‏

Monkey see Monkey do, seems pretty clear cut.