Is usury immoral?

[loriersea]

Is usury immoral? If not, why not? If so, should it be illegal?

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

You may want to include a definition for usury, because I know I've never seen the word before.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Having looked it up, no I don't think it is immoral, and it certainly shouldn't be illegal. Many people make a living handing out loans and what not. Without usury, they would never make a profit.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

You may want to include a definition for usury, because I know I've never seen the word before.

Usury
1 archaic : INTEREST
2 : the lending of money with an interest charge for its use; especially : the lending of money at exorbitant interest rates
3 : an unconscionable or exorbitant rate or amount of interest; specifically : interest in excess of a legal rate charged to a borrower for the use of money

I agree.
There are positions that view ANY usury (albeit, I find many doing so to be insincere in the reference i.e. citing certain scriptures yet ignoring others) as immoral.

And another that use the third definition (that I provided) - which I can agree upon as being immoral.

 

[chipmunk]

Usury
1 archaic : INTEREST
2 : the lending of money with an interest charge for its use; especially : the lending of money at exorbitant interest rates
3 : an unconscionable or exorbitant rate or amount of interest; specifically : interest in excess of a legal rate charged to a borrower for the use of money

Using this given definition...

1--I would not consider this immoral.

2--I would consider this immoral. I would not seek to make it illegal. Lenders offer a service and while I find it immoral and distasteful for them to want to make such high demands for the service, we also have the option of not participating. I'm not saying I find interest in itself immoral, but I do find exorbitant interest to be so.

3--I would consider this immoral. This one already implies illegal activity and I'd keep it that way. Limits that might be set on interest are there to protect people who have ligitimate reasons for borrowing monies. It's to protect us from the leeches in 2.

 

[MoonlessNight]

When one gives a loan expecting a repayment one isn't really giving a service that has a value any greater than the money given out. To charge interest is to try to make money from the exploitation of a person's weakness, and as such isn't moral.

It should be noted that I think that the situation is a bit different when it comes to a bank, which does offer a unique service which comes through the amount of loans that they give out. If they did not charge interest on lonas, they would not be able to give interest on deposits or to give out as large of loans. So in that case they are providing a service for which it is justified for them to charge. But in the case of an individual giving out a loan on an isolated occurence (say if you ask me to borrow a hundred books and I say okay, but only if you pay me back a hundred fifty) there is no reason to ask for additional money back other than greed.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Well, I certainly think that it is immoral in the personal realm. We are supposed to give freely of what we have, and if my brother has need that I can fulfill then I should notexpect repayment, as though I have done something special, instead of following exactly what my Lord and human empathy in general require me to do. I realize how unpopular a notion this is in the industrialized North, but general reciprocity has not been at all uncommon globally and historically.

Banks can be another matter in some cases, as they allow people to enter the commercial realm- microloans and the Grameen come to mind.

 

[Autumnleaf]

People who take out loans sometimes do not pay them back; hence, the need to charge interest to compensate for risk of default. People with crummy credit tend to default more often than others; hence, the need for higher interest rates to coincide with increased risk on the lenders part.

People should not borrow money to avoid such problems.

 

[loriersea]

People should not borrow money to avoid such problems.

And how do you suggest people should pay for school? Homes?

When the cost of things is so much greater than what any person who isn't enormously rich can save in a reasonable amount of time, there seems to be no way around loans.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

And how do you suggest people should pay for school? Homes?

When the cost of things is so much greater than what any person who isn't enormously rich can save in a reasonable amount of time, there seems to be no way around loans.

True. But how will the people who give out those loans, make the money to give out the loans?

 

[loriersea]

True. But how will the people who give out those loans, make the money to give out the loans?

Well, that's why I'm not sure if it's immoral. I think charging interest to make a large profit is wrong, but I can understand a small amount of interest being necessary.

But, then, Muslims are barred from any form of usury, including taking loans that require interest, and they have systems set up in the United States to help people fund education and home-buying. So, it is possible, just not profitable.

 

[Autumnleaf]

And how do you suggest people should pay for school? Homes?

When the cost of things is so much greater than what any person who isn't enormously rich can save in a reasonable amount of time, there seems to be no way around loans.

Save for a home and pay as you go for school. Loans are a way to sell yourself to others, a form of self indentured slavery not everyone participates in. The Bible even talks about this succinctly. If it is worth it to you for whatever reason then do it, personally I try to avoid debt.

 

[Maxwell511]

Is usury immoral?

I would say that charging an abnormal amount of interest is immoral I couldn't give you an exact percentage which is too much, maybe over 20%.

If so, should it be illegal?

Yes exploitation is bad for society.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Save for a home and pay as you go for school. Loans are a way to sell yourself to others, a form of self indentured slavery not everyone participates in. The Bible even talks about this succinctly. If it is worth it to you for whatever reason then do it, personally I try to avoid debt.

Both school and homes cost well more than minimum wage- my current job doesn't even pay for my insurance, I require help from my parents to maintain them. I've known at least three people who dropped out of school to avoid taking out loans, and I'm sure there would be more, if more people were as opposed to loans as you are. And minimum wage is not always available. For someone who does not already have an education, the job market is often very slim indeed. Unemployment in this nation is too abundant to explain away with "laziness".

 

[hernyaccent]

Save for a home and pay as you go for school. Loans are a way to sell yourself to others, a form of self indentured slavery not everyone participates in. The Bible even talks about this succinctly. If it is worth it to you for whatever reason then do it, personally I try to avoid debt.

'

If life were only that simple. How do you suggest somone with a 30,000 a year college bill pay as they go along? Or how long does it take for an AVERAGE citizen to aquire 150,000 for a home?

 

[Autumnleaf]

'

If life were only that simple. How do you suggest somone with a 30,000 a year college bill pay as they go along? Or how long does it take for an AVERAGE citizen to aquire 150,000 for a home?

Not every college costs $30,000 per year. Go to a less expensive school unless you are virtually guaranteed to get paid over 100K per year upon graduation. I don't know if the average citizen ever acquires a 150,000 home. I know of many people paying mortgages for them but I don't know many owners of them unless you count the banks.

 

[Mr. QWERTY]

Save for a home and pay as you go for school. Loans are a way to sell yourself to others, a form of self indentured slavery not everyone participates in. The Bible even talks about this succinctly. If it is worth it to you for whatever reason then do it, personally I try to avoid debt.

This is not practical and can cost you more in the long run. Taking a loan out to pay for school, if it means you can go to a better school and graduate in a short period of time simply makes good sense. You will start earning good money sooner rather than later.

Same thing for the house. Saving enough money to buy a house outright while still paying rent could take 30, 40 or 50 years. Better to borrow now and pay it back (with interest) over the period of your mortgage.

 

[Maxwell511]

If life were only that simple. How do you suggest somone with a 30,000 a year college bill pay as they go along?

For someone reason I think the american system is set up to put the best and the brightest into "indentured slavery".

 

[Autumnleaf]

Both school and homes cost well more than minimum wage- my current job doesn't even pay for my insurance, I require help from my parents to maintain them. I've known at least three people who dropped out of school to avoid taking out loans, and I'm sure there would be more, if more people were as opposed to loans as you are. And minimum wage is not always available. For someone who does not already have an education, the job market is often very slim indeed. Unemployment in this nation is too abundant to explain away with "laziness".

The military can help pay alot , sometimes parents help, other times it takes a job or two and going to school part time.

I know more than a few college grads with lots of student loans working low paying jobs and a few HS grads making good money owning their own businesses. College is not a magic bullet to good employment.

 

[Maxwell511]

The military can help pay alot

So getting a loan to pay for university is "indentured slavery" but joining the military is not?