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Is true repentance always prompted by godly sorrow?

RaymondG

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You say you find nothing wrong with my interpretation of REPENTANCE and then you proceed to post as if you totally misunderstood what I said.

This sounds to you like I'm saying it's OK to sin because we could never help ourselves. This is not what I'm saying.
Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more...IOW, she should stop doing what she was doing. He wants all of us to stop sinning.
I didnt think you were saying that sin is ok. Only that you cant not sin, and are going to sin in the future. Jesus said to sin no more...I believe we can....yet I have no problem with those who believe they cant.

So then why did John write 1 John 1:8-10?
Children, DO NOT SIN,
But IF YOU DO SIN...there is a remedy.

Why did John write 1 John 3:9
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Peter seem to link the idea that one cannot stop sinning, to those that are cursed:
"Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:"

I dont go along with the idea that everyone continues to sin, but some, if they believe a few things, are forgiven......therefore, forgiveness is the only separation between the saved and unsaved sinner.

But again, I find no fault with those who do believe this.

I agree about the turning back. We are not to feel sorry for our past life which may, or may not, have been chock full of sin. We ALL sin in one way or another. There is none righteous, no not one. We all fall short of the glory of God.

This is the teaching aspect of your speeches. Telling the reader about them, and not just discribing your own experiences. You sin in one way or another. I believe you in this. I happen to also believe that there are others who dont and cannot.

I don't "teach" others to look back; I've used that verse many times.

I'm also not here to teach...
That implies that those hearing accept what I say.

Also, I hope you really do understand what repentance means.
It's important to understanding our walk with God.

Thanks, I hope you really understand repentance as well.
 
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Saint Steven

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Are there times when we won’t feel sorrow while repenting but be sincere nonetheless, or is godly sorrow the proof of true repentance? Thank you
The way you are using the word "repenting" it seems that you actually meant "confessing".

Repentance means to turn away from. Confession means to agree with God that something you are doing is wrong.

We name our sins when we confess them. We stop sinning according to our confession when we repent (turn away) from our sinful behavior.

With that in mind I see either activity as positional rather than emotional. A person may have sorrow over their sin, but God doesn't require it.

As soon as we put qualifiers on our confession we are making it impossible to measure. This is the tool of the enemy.

The enemy will ask: "Were you sincere enough in your repentance, or could you have been more sincere? (of course) Were you remorseful enough in your confession, or could you have been more remorseful?" (of course)

Therefore, confession and repentance are cut and dried. You either do it or you don't. As soon as you add qualifiers you make it unmeasurable. The danger zone.

Don't get me wrong. We need to be honest with ourselves and with God. Beyond that nothing is required. IMHO

1 John 1:8-10
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
 
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AnnaDeborah

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We name our sins when we confess them. We stop sinning according to our confession when we repent (turn away) from our sinful behavior.

With that in mind I see either activity as positional rather than emotional. A person may have sorrow over their sin, but God doesn't require it.

As soon as we put qualifiers on our confession we are making it impossible to measure. This is the tool of the enemy.

The enemy will ask: "Were you sincere enough in your repentance, or could you have been more sincere? (of course) Were you remorseful enough in your confession, or could you have been more remorseful?" (of course)

I experienced this when someone lent me a book about a revival (I think it was the Welsh revival) It talked about people lying on the floor, screaming in agony for hours and begging God for mercy until they 'came through' and were 'wonderfully saved'. It went on to say things like 'you may have asked Jesus to be your Saviour but have you experienced the 'soul agony' that comes with 'true Salvation'. As a young child, I believed wholeheartedly in the promises of God - it never occurred to me to spend hours screaming and crying for Him to save me, because the Bible didn't mention that, it just said that all who came to Him in repentance and faith would be saved. And I would have thought that spending hours begging God to do something that He has already promised to do would have been doubting His word or trying to add to salvation by my own efforts (I had to scream and cry 'enough' to be saved). The enemy really used this book to make me doubt my salvation until I went back to the Bible and claimed the promises of God, which are not based on outward emotional show but on our heart beliefs.
 
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Saint Steven

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I experienced this when someone lent me a book about a revival (I think it was the Welsh revival) It talked about people lying on the floor, screaming in agony for hours and begging God for mercy until they 'came through' and were 'wonderfully saved'. It went on to say things like 'you may have asked Jesus to be your Saviour but have you experienced the 'soul agony' that comes with 'true Salvation'. As a young child, I believed wholeheartedly in the promises of God - it never occurred to me to spend hours screaming and crying for Him to save me, because the Bible didn't mention that, it just said that all who came to Him in repentance and faith would be saved. And I would have thought that spending hours begging God to do something that He has already promised to do would have been doubting His word or trying to add to salvation by my own efforts (I had to scream and cry 'enough' to be saved). The enemy really used this book to make me doubt my salvation until I went back to the Bible and claimed the promises of God, which are not based on outward emotional show but on our heart beliefs.
I agree.
Thanks for your wonderful post.

Don't get me wrong, but when I came onto this thread I saw a lot of what looked like female posters and was concerned about a completely emotional discussion of these things. When I saw a reply from what looked like a female poster I braced myself to possibly be blasted.

Such a relief to read your post and see that you understood where I was coming from. Thanks. I have nothing against women, but the tendency is to view things from a more emotional POV.

It seems that I only cry when I laugh hard. Am I forgiven? Oh, yes.
 
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AnnaDeborah

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Well I'm part Welsh and the Welsh are a fiery nation, so don't assume you'll never be blasted :eek:

We have another member on this forum who not only doesn't like women, he also doesn't like Baptists, so I must make him REALLY stressed. ;)

(BTW, if you think men don't do emotion, try hanging round with a bunch of Welsh blokes when the rugby is on :rolleyes: )
 
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Saint Steven

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Well I'm part Welsh and the Welsh are a fiery nation, so don't assume you'll never be blasted :eek:

We have another member on this forum who not only doesn't like women, he also doesn't like Baptists, so I must make him REALLY stressed. ;)

(BTW, if you think men don't do emotion, try hanging round with a bunch of Welsh blokes when the rugby is on :rolleyes: )
Fair enough. I'll proceed with caution. Thanks.
 
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GodsGrace101

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I didnt think you were saying that sin is ok. Only that you cant not sin, and are going to sin in the future. Jesus said to sin no more...I believe we can....yet I have no problem with those who believe they cant.

Why did John write 1 John 3:9
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Peter seem to link the idea that one cannot stop sinning, to those that are cursed:
"Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:"

I dont go along with the idea that everyone continues to sin, but some, if they believe a few things, are forgiven......therefore, forgiveness is the only separation between the saved and unsaved sinner.

But again, I find no fault with those who do believe this.


This is the teaching aspect of your speeches. Telling the reader about them, and not just discribing your own experiences. You sin in one way or another. I believe you in this. I happen to also believe that there are others who dont and cannot.

Thanks, I hope you really understand repentance as well.

I just want to say this:
Do we have any idea how holy God is?
The closer we get to God, the more we realize how much we sin.
We sin all the time and all day long. We NEVER do NOT sin.
It's just that we don't THINK it's sin....
We think that if we don't kill anybody and don't steal anything and return some money we found and know who it belongs to, then we must not be sinning.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Our sin nature does not disappear when we come to know God. The Holy Spirit puts our sin nature under submission, but it does not go away until glorification time.

I think that if we could understand how holy God is, no one would ever say that's it's possible not to sin.

John said that saying we have no sin IS A SIN.

Just wanted to get that out there.
I have no problem with anything you've said and do not mean this personally for you.
 
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RaymondG

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I just want to say this:
Do we have any idea how holy God is?
The closer we get to God, the more we realize how much we sin.
We sin all the time and all day long. We NEVER do NOT sin.
It's just that we don't THINK it's sin....
We think that if we don't kill anybody and don't steal anything and return some money we found and know who it belongs to, then we must not be sinning.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Our sin nature does not disappear when we come to know God. The Holy Spirit puts our sin nature under submission, but it does not go away until glorification time.

I think that if we could understand how holy God is, no one would ever say that's it's possible not to sin.

John said that saying we have no sin IS A SIN.

Just wanted to get that out there.
I have no problem with anything you've said and do not mean this personally for you.
I believe that one who could understand how holy God is, and know that Our bodies are the temple of God in which God dwells, Cannot believe that this Holy God could dwell in a vessel that sins.

He is too holy to do that. Jesus proved that it can be done. and He is the Way.....and says to Follow Him.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that one can just stop sinning.... It is something that Happens when truth is revealed and His presences fills the temple. So believe not those who say they have stopped sinning.....but believe those who say that they cant and have not stopped.

If we Love johns, words, let love all of them, not just the ones we believe agree with our interpretation.

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

this is true....If he werent in sin, there would be not reason for Jesus to show us the way out. But once out.....

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? "
 
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devin553344

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Are there times when we won’t feel sorrow while repenting but be sincere nonetheless, or is godly sorrow the proof of true repentance? Thank you

I was going to answer no, but the Webster dictionary defines repentance as feeling sorrow so I guess you must feel sorrow to repent. Although I have stopped sinning before feeling sorrow for it.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Repent comes from the Greek word “ metanoia” which means “ a change of mind”. In regard to salvation it is to change from your self -righteous attitude of “ I’m good enough” to seeing that you are a wretched sinner who is lost apart from the Grace of God.Switching from YOUR works to Gods Grace is the change of mind that mûst take place.Only then is the contrite heart ready to receive Paul’s Gospel , ,given to him by Jesus and found in 1cor15:1-4.
 
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GodsGrace101

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I believe that one who could understand how holy God is, and know that Our bodies are the temple of God in which God dwells, Cannot believe that this Holy God could dwell in a vessel that sins.

He is too holy to do that. Jesus proved that it can be done. and He is the Way.....and says to Follow Him.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that one can just stop sinning.... It is something that Happens when truth is revealed and His presences fills the temple. So believe not those who say they have stopped sinning.....but believe those who say that they cant and have not stopped.

If we Love johns, words, let love all of them, not just the ones we believe agree with our interpretation.

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

this is true....If he werent in sin, there would be not reason for Jesus to show us the way out. But once out.....

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? "
Just a couple of comments... this is something that should not be debated; we each have our experience with God and how we understand Him, as long as it's not unscriptural.

God does not dwell in us, the Holy Spirit dwells in us. Let's not get into the Trinity because it's just too complicated, but I DO believe in the Trinity. Each person has their particular job or work to do. The Holy Spirit is our paraclete and dwells with us and helps us. He helps us...He does not prevent us from ever sinning since we have free will, moral free will, to do as we wish.

I do agree with you that a born again believer sins much less than persons that do not know God and make up their own rules for living.

I love all of John's words, and I DO NOT interpret scripture all on my own. What I post is what I've learned from two churches and their theologians. They agree on this, BTW.

We SHOULD NOT continue in sin, or PRACTICE sin as is stated in 1 John 3:9 The word "practices" means lives a life of sin.
You could check this out,,,it's not me saying this.

I'm so glad that you understand what Paul said about not continuing in sin. I hear too much about how Paul preached grace as if we could sin all we want to and still be saved.

Blessings.
 
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Chinchilla

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^^ THIS ^^

In other words, you don't just confess the sin knowing full well in your heart that you will do it again. As in, not even try to resist.

We should because we constantly sin . In this passage it's not us who are faithfull but it's him who is faithfull .

1 John 1:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 Thessalonians 5:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
 
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Stringfellow_Hawke

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We should because we constantly sin . In this passage it's not us who are faithfull but it's him who is faithfull .

1 John 1:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 Thessalonians 5:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Big difference between the slip ups and planning on doing something wrong knowing full well that it’s wrong when you plan it.
 
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justbyfaith

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We should because we constantly sin . In this passage it's not us who are faithfull but it's him who is faithfull .

1 John 1:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 Thessalonians 5:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
Do what?
 
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justbyfaith

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You could have fragility toward a particular sin and may even know that you might do it again. This does not mean you're not sorry about it and cannot be forgiven for it. We could only do our sincere best. Only God is good and Jesus gave this to us as a goal --- be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.
We aim for that goal.

You must be sorry at the time of confessing it to God, and He'll know how sincere you are.
You are aiming at the goal of perfection...the question I would ask is why? Is it so you can somehow become worthy and thus save yourself from hell by becoming worthy of heaven?

I would say that salvation in Christ has to do not with becoming worthy enough to attain heaven, but rather it has to do with putting your whole faith and trust in what Christ did for you on the Cross so that you are forgiven of all sin, past, present, and future...and therefore you are forever perfect in His sight because when He looks at you He doesn't see any of your sin but only the blood of Jesus Christ.
 
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justbyfaith

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In answer to the title question:

No, true repentance is not always prompted by godly sorrow.

If someone falls in love with Jesus for that He forgave them much (Luke 7:36-50), they will turn away from sin because they have a sincere love for Him and want to please Him.

Now I am certain that tears may fall in the process of praying to Him and telling Him that we are sorry that what we did put Him on the Cross...so maybe godly sorrow will always happen; and that this is the definition of godly sorrow...that we are sorry for His pain that He suffered in order to redeem us.
 
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Zangoose

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The way you are using the word "repenting" it seems that you actually meant "confessing".

Repentance means to turn away from. Confession means to agree with God that something you are doing is wrong.

We name our sins when we confess them. We stop sinning according to our confession when we repent (turn away) from our sinful behavior.

With that in mind I see either activity as positional rather than emotional. A person may have sorrow over their sin, but God doesn't require it.

As soon as we put qualifiers on our confession we are making it impossible to measure. This is the tool of the enemy.

The enemy will ask: "Were you sincere enough in your repentance, or could you have been more sincere? (of course) Were you remorseful enough in your confession, or could you have been more remorseful?" (of course)

Therefore, confession and repentance are cut and dried. You either do it or you don't. As soon as you add qualifiers you make it unmeasurable. The danger zone.

Don't get me wrong. We need to be honest with ourselves and with God. Beyond that nothing is required. IMHO

1 John 1:8-10
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

But shouldn't there be grief for sin?
 
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Saint Steven

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But shouldn't there be grief for sin?
The short answer is, "No."

How would that be measured?
Could you have grieved more? (of course) Did you grieve enough? (who knows) Are you forgiven if you didn't grieve? (why?)

Repentance and confession are enough.
Admit what you did. (confession - agree with God)
Turn away from your sin. (repent)

Saint Steven said:
The way you are using the word "repenting" it seems that you actually meant "confessing".

Repentance means to turn away from. Confession means to agree with God that something you are doing is wrong.

We name our sins when we confess them. We stop sinning according to our confession when we repent (turn away) from our sinful behavior.

With that in mind I see either activity as positional rather than emotional. A person may have sorrow over their sin, but God doesn't require it.

As soon as we put qualifiers on our confession we are making it impossible to measure. This is the tool of the enemy.

The enemy will ask: "Were you sincere enough in your repentance, or could you have been more sincere? (of course) Were you remorseful enough in your confession, or could you have been more remorseful?" (of course)

Therefore, confession and repentance are cut and dried. You either do it or you don't. As soon as you add qualifiers you make it unmeasurable. The danger zone.

Don't get me wrong. We need to be honest with ourselves and with God. Beyond that nothing is required. IMHO

1 John 1:8-10
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
 
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