is true debate really possible??

[WoundedDeep]

In my defence, you haven't answered my question either: how are good and evil defined by faith?

What? You just acknowledged my answer in your previous post by asking me "how does faith tell you that?". Or is it a habit for you to go in circles after you find yourself challenged beyond your ability to answer?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

What? You just acknowledged my answer in your previous post by asking me "how does faith tell you that?". Or is it a habit for you to go in circles after you find yourself challenged beyond your ability to answer?

I did attempt to your answer your question, with the caveat that I wasn't sure how to answer it because your answer to my previous question was content poor. As I said, if we are serious about ethics then pursuing the question intellectually is obligatory, and we cannot simply rely on faith that whatever answer happens to be written in a holy book is the correct answer. The alternative is intellectual laziness.

 

[WoundedDeep]

I did attempt to your answer your question, with the caveat that I wasn't sure how to answer it because your answer to my previous question was content poor. As I said, if we are serious about ethics then pursuing the question intellectually is obligatory, and we cannot simply rely on faith that whatever answer happens to be written in a holy book is the correct answer. The alternative is intellectual laziness.

You should just admit that intellectuality does not offer a specific definition of good and evil. And if you use intellectual correctly, it actually substantiates what faith already tells people about good and evil.

I have only one question: Do you admit that all manners of evil in this world stems from selfishness?

 

[Davian]

I have no intention of putting down the beliefs of others, but there is no polite way of critically assessing personal beliefs.

Why not ? Maybe I misunderstand the definition of polite.
polite






adjective po·lite \pə-ˈlīt\
: having or showing good manners or respect for other people
: socially correct or proper


(Merriam-Webser)

I think what they meant is, that something so close and personal as your beliefs would be taken as an attack no matter how you went about it, which is a fair comment.

Precisely.

 

[Belk]

or is it mainly just point scoring?

It is possible. I have changed my mind several times based on being convinced via evidence and reasoning that my position was incorrect.

 

[thepromiseofgrace]

It is possible. I have changed my mind several times based on being convinced via evidence and reasoning that my position was incorrect.

that;s good to hear.

 

[quatona]

we are going off topic, please get back on track.

is true debate possible not what do we believe in.

Even though the discussion is off-topic, it gives pretty good examples for what it is that prevents an open discussion.

 

[Loudmouth]

real, honest debate, two or more people trying to work something through to a conclusion.

Such a debate would need an agreed upon worldview that could define what qualifies as evidence. You can't reach a conclusion without first agreeing to the facts that are pertinent to the conclusion.

The big sticking point is faith, as in a belief held in the absence of evidence. On one side, we have theists who believe in the divine inspiration of scripture. On the other, you have atheists who are happy to look at evidence, but will not jump to a conclusion absent such evidence.

That is where the conversation between theists and atheists is stuck.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You should just admit that intellectuality does not offer a specific definition of good and evil. And if you use intellectual correctly, it actually substantiates what faith already tells people about good and evil.

Why would I admit that? What does faith offer us in the way of a definition?

I have only one question: Do you admit that all manners of evil in this world stems from selfishness?

What do you mean by selfishness?

 

[agua]

I often find that the reason some of the atheists on here constantly question our faith to the point of personal attacks is because our very faith offends them. They are in enmity against God and thus they turn it on those who have faith in Him.

Yes that's sometimes the case and you're correct that the Cross, and the Gospel message is offensive. The more frequent occurance is the merry-go-round ride rebuttal which I think you may know should only be accomodated for a short duration, and then not even entertained from serial offenders/riders.

Keep up the good work Sister and good application of 1Peter3:15,16. Praise Jesus.

 

[WoundedDeep]

Yes that's sometimes the case and you're correct that the Cross, and the Gospel message is offensive. The more frequent occurance is the merry-go-round ride rebuttal which I think you may know should only be accomodated for a short duration, and then not even entertained from serial offenders/riders.

Keep up the good work Sister and good application of 1Peter3:15,16. Praise Jesus.

Indeed, praise Lord Jesus for considering us worthy of receiving the Gospel. I am pretty blunt in pointing out the attitude of those people, in hope that they will be ashamed and will repent and start believing in Jesus. But it is God who works on people's hearts, therefore all glory and credit to Him alone.

The days are dark, we need to keep our eyes on the Lord as the world turns away from God more each second. I have confidence that given all the current signs in the world, our redemption is near.

 

[agua]

Indeed, praise Lord Jesus for considering us worthy of receiving the Gospel. I am pretty blunt in pointing out the attitude of those people, in hope that they will be ashamed and will repent and start believing in Jesus. But it is God who works on people's hearts, therefore all glory and credit to Him alone.

The days are dark, we need to keep our eyes on the Lord as the world turns away from God more each second. I have confidence that given all the current signs in the world, our redemption is near.

Yes indeed. The testing of the Saints is intensifying, be on your toes and aware of Satan's devices. Of course we have nothing to fear but fear itself.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Indeed, praise Lord Jesus for considering us worthy of receiving the Gospel. I am pretty blunt in pointing out the attitude of those people, in hope that they will be ashamed and will repent and start believing in Jesus. But it is God who works on people's hearts, therefore all glory and credit to Him alone.

I have to ask: what do you hope that they will be ashamed of?

 

[quatona]

in hope that they will be ashamed

Yes, that´s pretty much how you come across.

 

[WoundedDeep]

Yes, that´s pretty much how you come across.

Should people not be ashamed when they are lashing out accusations/lies without any regrets at people whom they neither know nor have met, and lashing out against them towards people who are of the same group? And it is not even a one time issue, it is a consistent issue that goes on with the same individuals.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I have only one question: Do you admit that all manners of evil in this world stems from selfishness?

If by selfishness you mean the willingness to misuse others for one's own purposes, then yes, but not exclusively. Many evils stem from selflessness -- much harm in the world has been done in the name of a proposed "higher good" that transcends individual well-being. Selfishness and selflessness are the twin poles of destruction.

The good is found in being wisely self-interested and respectful of the lives of others.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

Should people not be ashamed when they are lashing out accusations/lies without any regrets at people whom they neither know nor have met, and lashing out against them towards people who are of the same group?

I have no interest in shaming you.

 

[WoundedDeep]

I have no interest in shaming you.

If I am wrong, then point it out. I am not immune to error. The reason why I react certain way to certain people is because I have already bore with their negative attitude for a good while. You don't see me going around shaming everyone do you?

 

[WoundedDeep]

If by selfishness you mean the willingness to misuse others for one's own purposes, then yes, but not exclusively. Many evils stem from selflessness -- much harm in the world has been done in the name of a proposed "higher good" that transcends individual well-being. Selfishness and selflessness are the twin poles of destruction.

The good is found in being wisely self-interested and respectful of the lives of others.


eudaimonia,

Mark

True selflessness is absent of doing actual harm. So the selflessness you mention that causes harm really isn't selflessness. I do mean selfishness the way you described.

 

[quatona]

If I am wrong, then point it out. I am not immune to error.

As long as you feel that your intuition can´t fool you, to the point that you know people´s intentions and motives better than they do themselves, there´s hardly a way to start convincing you otherwise. Your preconceptions are safely sheltered.

The reason why I react certain way to certain people is because I have already bore with their negative attitude for a good while.

Well, I perceive your attitude as extremely negative here. That doesn´t mean I ascribe sinister motives to you.
Yes, oftentimes previous negative encounters prompt people into a negative approach - but this goes for everyone else, as well, not only for you.

You don't see me going around shaming everyone do you?

No, I just saw you admitting that shaming people is one of your intentions. And from what I know about psychology, this is being counterproductive (assuming that your overall goal here is a more empathic style of conversation).