Is Tim Conway teaching a works based salvation yes or no?

torcot · Feb 16, 2011

I have watched several of his videos now, and after watching them I am on the fence about him. I watched one video where he says that we must repent before faith and We must stop sinning completely or we won't be saved, yet on another video he says that salvation is like peter who realized that without Christ we will drown. I agree with him that salvation will lead to a changed life and it will produce fruit but its like you are not saved unless you ask Jesus to forgive you a certain way. As a result of watching his videos I have had jaded thought process and I hate being jaded.

RobertZ · Feb 16, 2011

torcot said:
I have watched several of his videos now, and after watching them I am on the fence about him. I watched one video where he says that we must repent before faith and We must stop sinning completely or we won't be saved, yet on another video he says that salvation is like peter who realized that without Christ we will drown. I agree with him that salvation will lead to a changed life and it will produce fruit but its like you are not saved unless you ask Jesus to forgive you a certain way. As a result of watching his videos I have had jaded thought process and I hate being jaded.

My feelings exactly, I like Tim but when you put most of his messages together he contradicts himself a whole lot and as a result preaches a confusing/mixed message.

Hupomone10 · Feb 16, 2011

torcot said:
I have watched several of his videos now, and after watching them I am on the fence about him. I watched one video where he says that we must repent before faith and We must stop sinning completely or we won't be saved, yet on another video he says that salvation is like peter who realized that without Christ we will drown. I agree with him that salvation will lead to a changed life and it will produce fruit but its like you are not saved unless you ask Jesus to forgive you a certain way. As a result of watching his videos I have had jaded thought process and I hate being jaded.

RobertZ said:
My feelings exactly, I like Tim but when you put most of his messages together he contradicts himself a whole lot and as a result preaches a confusing/mixed message.

That is my observation as well, Torcot and Robert.

I know some people for some reason like him, but to my knowledge he's not a spiritual pastoral giant. And I'm sure he never intended those off-the-cuff video talks to get widespread internet circulation, or he would have thought out his comments better.

Example from a previous Tim Conway video:

If you look at your checkbook register, I guarantee you its an infallible test Brethren, this is infallible: I guarantee you on judgment day, where your money went in this life is going to prove whether you were on your way to heaven or not. I guarantee it."
(video clip by Tim Conway, on thread entitled "Struggling against sin and saved or a slave of sin and lost", posted 1/5/11)

Tim is simply a pastor of Grace Community Church of San Antonio, Tx. Not sure how large it is, not that it matters (from what I've heard on here, my associate pastor seems to be far better than Tim and our church may be smaller).

It is a Reformed Baptist church, and he a reformed Baptist pastor; so as a reformed church, it's sermons will naturally have a flavor of salvation by grace and sanctification (living the Christian life) by works.

Since assurance of God's acceptance of us in Christ is a growth step in Christian living, it is no surprise to find Tim strongly emphasize performance as a basis of assurance.

As example, the quote above. Works are important, but not a fool-proof test either way.

To judge someone's works (which we shouldn't do), we need to compare his current behavior with his past, rather than comparing his behavior with that of other believers who may be far different from him in weaknesses, challenges, backgrounds and experiences.

In Christ,
H.

jacob2i · Oct 18, 2012

Anihilus said:
No, he isn't. I have listened to the video two times since it came out and I pretty much agree with what he says. How is he teaching you have to work for salvation?

I can understand about the discouragement thing, but what will sitting around and worry about it do?

In his youtube video, ("How do I repent"), Tim Conway quotes a scripture that says: "If you do not repent, you will perish" (His discussion of this is between 1:20 and 1:55 on the video.)

So If I have accepted Christ through Faith alone, and salvation is by faith alone, why the consistent warnings to BELIEVERS that they must repent or likewise perish?(Luke 13:3)

This clearly is a work after salvation, to me.

torcot · Oct 19, 2012

jacob2i said:
In his youtube video, ("How do I repent"), Tim Conway quotes a scripture that says: "If you do not repent, you will perish" (His discussion of this is between 1:20 and 1:55 on the video.)

So If I have accepted Christ through Faith alone, and salvation is by faith alone, why the consistent warnings to BELIEVERS that they must repent or likewise perish?(Luke 13:3)

This clearly is a work after salvation, to me.

Repentance is part of faith, they are two sides of the same coin. You cannot repent without turning to Jesus, and you cannot turn to Jesus without believing on him for forgiveness and salvation. To repent means to turn or "change ones mind" You change your direction towards Christ, but none of this is a works based salvation because it is based on the ability of Christ to forgive, not yours to repent of sin.

abacabb3 · Jan 9, 2014

Resurrecting this old thread:

I have been exploring the same questions about Conway, and I have to say, there is something very simple and hard to dispute in his message. He is not teaching "perfectionism," he specifically denounces it. More accurately, he teaches, "You can't be perfect, but in your life you should want to be." And how do you know that is the real desire of your heart? The way you talk is different, spend your money is different, work is different, etc. Your life is different.

He is simply preaching very strongly against counterfeit lukewarm Christianity...the kind God said He would chew up and spit out in Revelation.

Eph 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

So, there is a difference in chronology: grace first, then faith and then works. However, there is a coexistence of all three once the ball starts rolling.

Petruchio · Jan 9, 2014

Christian_Believer22 said:
Why the defensive tone over a few Bible verses? It's not about my point, it's about God's point since those verses are the word of God. I don't think those verses needed explaining.

Neither do these:

"For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."
(Rom 7:19-25)

Bluelion · Jan 9, 2014

I think every Christian should seek to secure there salvation. What I mean is they need to pray and read until they understand once they are reborn they are saved forever. I questioned for over 30 years if I was saved. God finally secured this for me and what I found was I was saved sense I was 6. DO not spend your life wonder seek to secure your salvation what ever it takes to build a castle around this area, but this must be one area where you are not swayed an inch.

JM · Jan 10, 2014

what twin said

Elvis1234 · Jan 15, 2014

I used to watch his sermons until I wanted to stop feeling like garbage. I like him, God bless him, but he needs to give some hope in his sermons. Maybe he is more balanced than we can see from his uploaded sermons, I don't know.

walkinginthelightnow · Jan 17, 2014

Bluelion said:
I think every Christian should seek to secure there salvation. What I mean is they need to pray and read until they understand once they are reborn they are saved forever. I questioned for over 30 years if I was saved. God finally secured this for me and what I found was I was saved sense I was 6. DO not spend your life wonder seek to secure your salvation what ever it takes to build a castle around this area, but this must be one area where you are not swayed an inch.

Hence, the helmet of salvation!

well hey · Mar 27, 2014

I dont know much about Tim..essentials about like how long he's been pastoring, how he's been trialed, his life story yadda yadda but I do know and it's obvious that he's very influenced by Paul Washer. And what paul washer does is a huge ministry targeting a specific group of people- unsaved pple.

Tim pastors in Austin, Texas and the very small group (5-10) that goes there are saved, making it unnecessary to preach the type of preaching he does.
I've been there b4 to observe and sadly, the situation is a disaster case. I'm not saying that that could not change.

One morning Tim was preaching/teaching in his usual works based veering/conflicting style messages and it was just scary. The things he said and the tone and manner of preaching- I dont know if it put the fear of God in people but people were leaving and they were physically trembling, the vibe was all wierd. I do not beleive messages like these should be in the hearing of innocent saved sheep to discourage and destroy them. Because thats what it's doing to some. Ive seen more failure than fruits and good things being done to help and encourage those in the faith at this church. Also the people, they seemed nice, but eventually became interrogating, legalistic, and works based thinking. They are obsessed with works and really need to focus on The God of glory and the ultimate power He has instead of- in my eyes -yes- they are idolizing the idea of becoming holy and a better person. These are warning signs. We need to exalt GOD. And actually Worship him, not the goal of becoming sinless. BESIDES- it aint gonna happen. Our righteousness is filthy rags and praise God if he changed us in a habit or addiction..continue to move onward in that glory! This place is not a place I would want to go to.

JGiddings · Mar 27, 2014

Who?

I thought Tim Conway is a comedian that was on the Carol Burnett show.

well hey · Mar 28, 2014

Im glad im not the only one who is jaded and discouraged, kinda skull screwed by tims teaching/preaching. It makes me blelieve that maybe im not going to hell.

Emmy · Mar 31, 2014

Dear RobertZ. Jesus Himself tells us how to live, Be Saved. In Luke 10: 25-28
a Lawyer asks Jesus: " Master, what do I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus tells him: " You know the two Commandments which tell us: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Also: Love thy neighbour as thyself. Do this and you shall Live." Love/loving is also a verb/doing-word,
and Jesus also tells us: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love, and God wants loving men and women.
We start by asking God for His Love, then we thank God and share all Love with our neighbour: all around us. We keep asking God and thanking God,
then we share all Love with our neighbour. God will see our sincere efforts, and God will approve and Bless us. We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on Loving and Caring.
A Christian`s great weapon is LOVE, with love we will overcome all anger and adversities. It might take a bit longer to achieve, but Love will always be the VICTOR. People around us will notice, and treat us the same as we treat people. In time we will be sign-posts to God our Heavenly Father.
The Bible also tells us to " Repent, " and to " Be Born Again." Love is very
catching, and being kind and loving will turn us gradually into the sons and daughters, which God wants us to become. I say this with love, Robert.
Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Emmy · Apr 6, 2014

Dear RobertZ. May I point out what Jesus said in Luke 10: 25-28:
A Lawyer asked Jesus: " Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Jesus said to him: " What is written in the Law? how do you read? "
The Lawyer answered: " Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus said to him:
" you have answered right, DO THIS AND YOU SHALL LIVE."
May I point out one more thing? Love/to love is a Verb/doing-word.
I say this with love, Robert. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
P.S. The Expositor`s New Testament says: Matthew 22: end of verse 37:
"These Two Commandments are the foundation of all the Law, and as well,
apply to the Present Day of Grace."

Romansthruphilemon · Jun 13, 2018

RobertZ said:
And how does one go about getting it?

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

streamylc · Apr 25, 2020

"Murmur, murmur, murmur.... Make War!"

How many of our daily sins are actually products of unbelief?.... a lot more than we're aware of..... saddens my heart to see this Pastor get dissected for validity in some of the ways seen here....
some of Conway's sermons are terrifying, this i completely agree with.... but it's hard to argue with our "BEING saved".... it is an active endeavor.... it should scare us to turn down biblical teaching because it makes us feel uncomfortable.... I first found Conway through his overwhelming essence of Godly love.... and slowly found out he is a fervent supporter of biblical warning.... is it scary? Yes.... but what else is faith for? There's so much I want to say on the subject but am unable to put God's ordained structure into a pretty little box of understanding with my feeble flesh influenced brain. Tim Conway does it a lot better than I ever could.
Works are a byproduct of active faith. They're not something to be boasted in, but rather enjoyed, IME.

I would have no other way (that I'm aware of) to feel the Spirit flowing through my life apart from many of the feats (aka "works") made possible by the Holy Spirit, through my faith in Jesus Christ by the grace of God...

Praise Jesus for what He's done. May those looking to endure continue to do so by the grace of God through our faith in Christ. Hold fast...

Self justification scares me a heck of a lot more than having my assurances shaken/tested.

How does one exercise faith without joining the battle? If your not exercising faith then how do you know you even REALLY have it.... answer: you don't

Hammster · Apr 25, 2020

streamylc said:
"Murmur, murmur, murmur.... Make War!"

How many of our daily sins are actually products of unbelief?.... a lot more than were aware of..... saddens my heart to see this Pastor get dissected for validity in some of the ways seen here....
some of Conway's sermons are terrifying, this i completely agree with.... but it's hard to argue with our "BEING SAVED".... it is an active endeavor.... it should scare us to turn down biblical teaching because it makes us feel uncomfortable.... I first found Conway through his overwhelming essence of Godly love.... and slowly found out he is a fervent supporter of biblical warning.... is it scary? Yes.... but what else is faith for? Theres so much I want to say on the subject but am unable to put God's ordained structure into a pretty little box of understanding with my feeble flesh influenced brain. Tim Conway does it a lot better than I ever could.
Works are a byproduct of active faith. They're not something to be boasted in, but rather enjoyed, IME. I would have no other way (that I'm aware of) to feel the Spirit flowing through my life apart from many of the feats made possible by my faith in Jesus Christ (they're works!) By the grace of God... praise Jesus for what He's done. May those looking to endure continue to do so by the grace of God through our faith in Christ.

Self justification scares me a heck of a lot more than having my assurances shaken/tested.

Your first post, and you dig up a 9 year old thread?

streamylc · Apr 25, 2020

Hammster said:
Your first post, and you dig up a 9 year old thread?

Was distressing to search the man's name only to see this thread in the first few hits, and the conjecture (and condemnation) contained within... pretty powerful statements to stumble across.

Might have began 9 years ago, but google obviously doesn't know the difference <3 and I didnt neccesarily get the vibe of a conclusion.

Matthew 12:36 <-- pretty intense with the emergence of the internet.... even though this is of a very intense subject, so maybe not so much "idle" words, but I think it very much deserves as many supportive comments as those expressing chastisement (speaking of this thread)
I don't think one more perspective of walk is gonna HURT anything

(Unless that's just "friendly" sarcasm hinting towards the introduction thread )

Is Tim Conway teaching a works based salvation yes or no?

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