is this what all baptist churches teach?

[WithLoveFromAlyssa]

Liberty Gospel Tracts - Previous Questions and Answers - Is it wrong for a man to ask a woman a question about the Bible?

If this is a sin, girls answer only please?

 

[WithLoveFromAlyssa]

bump ?

 

[South Bound]

No. It isn't wrong. Women are only prohibited from teaching and holding positions of authority in the context of the church body, and even then, only in a specific context, not in general.

 

[Bluelion]

No. It isn't wrong. Women are only prohibited from teaching and holding positions of authority in the context of the church body, and even then, only in a specific context, not in general.

I know you said only girls to respond but I feel i must address this. Women are allowed to hold positions in the church and there is nothing stopping them. It might surprise you to know there were many women who held positions in the early church. There were also many women martyrs in the the early church.

In the garden of Eden woman was created as mans equal, it was not until sin and the curse that she was subordinate to man. We are not under the cruse because Jesus has freed us, women were restore to equal partners. You can find duties of women and men through out the Bible. There were many great women of the Bible. Jude, Ester, and both Mary's.

To answer your question No it is not wrong.

 

[South Bound]

I know you said only girls to respond but I feel i must address this. Women are allowed to hold positions in the church and there is nothing stopping them.

...except the Bible.

It might surprise you to know there were many women who held positions in the early church.

For example...?

In the garden of Eden woman was created as mans equal

No one is claiming women are not equal to men in worth, value, or dignity. The argument scripture makes is that women have a different role than men. The Bible is clearly and overwhelmingly complementarian in its teaching on the roles of men and women.

We are not under the cruse because Jesus has freed us, women were restore to equal partners.

What verse is this?

You can find duties of women and men through out the Bible. There were many great women of the Bible. Jude, Ester, and both Mary's.

What positions did "Jude, Esther, and 'both Marys'" hold in the church?

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

And why did Paul state unequivocally in 1 Timothy 2:12 that the reason he does not permit a woman to teach or take authority in church is exactly because she was created second?This doesn't respond to his question. It could be interpreted as "I don't have enough information to support that statement, so I'll just bail." And going back to this ... To avoid further derail of this thread, I'd like to see you start another one defending that statement, please.

 

[Bluelion]

Ad hominem attack. Not valid.And why did Paul state unequivocally in 1 Timothy 2:12 that the reason he does not permit a woman to teach or take authority in church is exactly because she was created second?This doesn't respond to his question. It could be interpreted as "I don't have enough information to support that statement, so I'll just bail." And going back to this ... To avoid further derail of this thread, I'd like to see you start another one defending that statement, please.

well lets look at the KJV shall we.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Meaning there burden is not to teach not they they can't but are not required.




lets look at the word usurp.

usurp verb \yu̇-ˈsərp also -ˈzərp\
: to take and keep (something, such as power) in a forceful or violent way and especially without the right to do so

Full Definition of USURP

transitive verb
1
a : to seize and hold (as office, place, or powers) in possession by force or without right <usurp a throne>
b : to take or make use of without right <usurped the rights to her life story>
2
: to take the place of by or as if by force : supplant <must not let stock responses based on inherited prejudice usurp careful judgment>

Well now we look at it Paul never intended to say women were not equal but what was and was not required of them.

Maybe I will start a thread and address women in the church. But certainly it is the judgement of men women are not equal and not that of God.

Who was the first to see Jesus resurrected Mary, who did He tell to tell the disciples He was alive, Mary. These are very important events and a woman(Mary) was ask to testify before the disciples men. Why would a woman be charged with such an important task? If like you say they are less then men?

Rom 16:7 KJV

7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

actually I disagree with the article below in the link second post. about this line where paul claims her as apostle, however he holds her in high regard, and in the first part of this chapter 1-2 he puts a woamn in charge.

2 that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also.


Clearly Paul holds women in high regard.

 

[godenver1]

.............

 

[South Bound]

I know I'm not a girl, but no, not all Baptist churches teach that as mine does not.

Btw, what the heck is a 'gospel tract'? I've never heard of one until recently as they are not common in my country.

I didn't know there was a place without Gospel tracts. A Gospel tract is a small pamphlet that explains the Gospel. You can either use them in witnessing, or pass them out.

 

[South Bound]

well lets look at the KJV shall we.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Meaning there burden is not to teach not they they can't but are not required.

How did you come to the conclusion that "I suffer not a woman to teach" really means "women don't have to teach".

Well now we look at it Paul never intended to say women were not equal but what was and was not required of them.

As I pointed out to you earlier, nobody is claiming that women aren't equal, only that they have different roles.

Maybe I will start a thread and address women in the church. But certainly it is the judgement of men women are not equal and not that of God.

Who, specifically has judged women to be not equal?

Who was the first to see Jesus resurrected Mary, who did He tell to tell the disciples He was alive, Mary. These are very important events and a woman(Mary) was ask to testify before the disciples men. Why would a woman be charged with such an important task? If like you say they are less then men?

Two problems with this.

First, as has been pointed out to you, nobody is claiming that women aren't equal to men. The issue is that they have different roles.

The second is that being witnesses of the resurrection is not an office in the Church, which is what we're discussing here.

actually I disagree with the article below in the link second post. about this line where paul claims her as apostle, however he holds her in high regard, and in the first part of this chapter 1-2 he puts a woamn in charge.

Actually, he says that she's of note among the apostles, not that she is an apostle.

Clearly Paul holds women in high regard.

Nobody is saying women shouldn't be held in high regard.

 

[jmcorn]

IMO. Women should always be teaching. Especially at home with their children. That should be their priority.

 

[USCGrad90]

I looked at the website and they have a number of very narrow views on issues with women, music (including opera and rock), hair style, jewlery, makeup, and so forth.
They are an independent Baptist church in Michigan.

Their views do not reflect other Baptist churches.

 

[godenver1]

I didn't know there was a place without Gospel tracts. A Gospel tract is a small pamphlet that explains the Gospel. You can either use them in witnessing, or pass them out.

Oh....I'd just never heard it referred to as a Gospel tract. I've seen numerous similar things that JWs hand out.

 

[now faith]

well lets look at the KJV shall we.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Meaning there burden is not to teach not they they can't but are not required.




lets look at the word usurp.

usurp verb \yu&#775;-&#712;s&#601;rp also -&#712;z&#601;rp\
: to take and keep (something, such as power) in a forceful or violent way and especially without the right to do so

Full Definition of USURP

transitive verb
1
a : to seize and hold (as office, place, or powers) in possession by force or without right <usurp a throne>
b : to take or make use of without right <usurped the rights to her life story>
2
: to take the place of by or as if by force : supplant <must not let stock responses based on inherited prejudice usurp careful judgment>

Well now we look at it Paul never intended to say women were not equal but what was and was not required of them.

Maybe I will start a thread and address women in the church. But certainly it is the judgement of men women are not equal and not that of God.

Who was the first to see Jesus resurrected Mary, who did He tell to tell the disciples He was alive, Mary. These are very important events and a woman(Mary) was ask to testify before the disciples men. Why would a woman be charged with such an important task? If like you say they are less then men?

Rom 16:7 KJV

7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

actually I disagree with the article below in the link second post. about this line where paul claims her as apostle, however he holds her in high regard, and in the first part of this chapter 1-2 he puts a woamn in charge.

2 that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also.


Clearly Paul holds women in high regard.

Let's not forget Priscilla in the mentoring of Apollos,and the Apostle Phillips three daughters.

Nice job bro !

 

[CurlyGirl01]

For those of you who wanted me to do your work for you or prove my self, Umm no you do the work, your the ones lacking understanding.

There's nothing wrong with asking a question; everyone's not a theologian. It's good to hear Biblically backed up opinions so that we can then make those choices (like this one) on what we believe for ourselves. But, it is very easy to have someone that is more knowledgable point us in some sort of direction.

I also just read I huge chunk of the thread and let's try to remember we're all on the still all on the same side.

 

[Bluelion]

Let's not forget Priscilla in the mentoring of Apollos,and the Apostle Phillips three daughters.

Nice job bro !

Why thank you Brother for the encouragement

 

[Bluelion]

There's nothing wrong with asking a question; everyone's not a theologian. It's good to hear Biblically backed up opinions so that we can then make those choices (like this one) on what we believe for ourselves. But, it is very easy to have someone that is more knowledgable point us in some sort of direction.

I also just read I huge chunk of the thread and let's try to remember we're all on the still all on the same side.

aww yes but I don't believe they were trying to understand rather by their comments they wanted me to prove my self. I prayed about it and God lead me to the link I posted and basically said it was not my fight. I have covered about 250 page of a book on church History in 3 weeks. The book is bigger than the Bible too, in order from me to to properly address it. I would have to go through the text book write a paper for this forum with references to a book they can not look up, and they would say show me in the Bible or i can find that information, so they would just reject what I would say after I spent which would take a bout 10 hours worth of work to do it right.

Thanks but i pay 10 grand a year for my education and i am not willing to put that time into something that would not change their mind any way and would not be appreciated.

So while I get you want to learn, i posted a link which you could, but i do not think they wanted to. So thanks but no thanks.

When i am on break i tend to write more. sorry but the Lord answer I felt and he said it is not my fight, He has me doing other stuff. I am really not trying to teach at this point, i am just trying to stop false doctrines and people being led a stray.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

well lets look at the KJV shall we.

Good translation, but in this case, bad idea.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Meaning there burden is not to teach not they they can't but are not required.

Looking at the English equivalent in the KJV doesn't transmit Paul's meaning in this day and age, though in 1611, the word "suffer" carried the same meaning at "allow," which is how the NASB translates the Greek epitrepo. It means, "permit," as in "I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority ... " and Paul goes on to explain why:

1 Timothy 2, NASB
13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
​

lets look at the word usurp.

No, let's not, because as I wrote above, it isn't "usurp" but "exercise." The Greek is authenteo from which we get "authority" in the English. It means to act on one's own authority. In other words, Paul is speaking of women who take upon themselves the mantle of teacher, pastor or preacher. The good news for women is, this translation leaves them open to being able to preach under a man's authority, either their husband's or their pastor's.

Well now we look at it Paul never intended to say women were not equal but what was and was not required of them.

On the contrary, we see exactly the opposite of that. Taking vv. 13-15 as quoted above in the context of v. 12, it is obvious Paul was not sanctioning female senior pastors, and female evangelists or teachers only who are willing to work under the covering authority of a qualified man. You might want to check out the use of the word "covering" in 1 Corinthians 11, which many have interpreted erroneously to mean women should were hats in church.

Maybe I will start a thread and address women in the church. But certainly it is the judgement of men women are not equal and not that of God.

Mmmm, no. It is God's judgment that, because they were deceived, they are not equal. That does not exclude them entirely, it just requires submission.

Who was the first to see Jesus resurrected Mary, who did He tell to tell the disciples He was alive, Mary. These are very important events and a woman(Mary) was ask to testify before the disciples men. Why would a woman be charged with such an important task? If like you say they are less then men?

Ah, but did she preach/teach that good news, or did she, as we see, submit to the disciples her eyewitness account and let them preach what she has seen?

Luke 24
10 Now they were Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James; also the other women with them were telling these things to the apostles.
---
21 "But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened.
22 "But also some women among us amazed us. When they were at the tomb early in the morning,
23 and did not find His body, they came, saying that they had also seen a vision of angels who said that He was alive.
24 "Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just exactly as the women also had said; but Him they did not see."
​

You see, Mary did not preach. There is not a single passage in Scripture that will tell you anything other than she and the other women went to the men in authority over them to relate those events. Mary gave an eyewitness account to the disciples, who then preached, as did these men on the road to Emmaus, no knowing they were speaking to Jesus Himself.

Clearly Paul holds women in high regard.

Clearly he did, but not in contradiction to God's will for women.

 

[now faith]

Priscilla and Aquila are a theological problem for those who oppose women teaching.

What office did she hold?

Lets think about this for a moment putting aside assumptions.

They both met Paul sharing the same trade tent making.
They were mentored by Paul who was a direct Apostle of Christ.
Apollos comes to the temple and is very well versed and speaks boldly.

Yet his preaching is yet to be refined,he lacks knowledge needed to complete his calling.

Aquila and Priscilla mentor him furthering his understanding of the Gospel.

So my long awaited answer would be teacher under the direction of Paul who was subject to Christ.
Historically we know Paul to be a bit stern on his commission,through the Holy Spirit a man that held him back was struck blind.
If Paul did not approve of Priscilla,I am sure he would have rebuked her.

So we go back to Blue Lions post and rightly divide the word.

 

[whitebeaches]

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