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Is This True?

smooze

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why paste so much jibberish just send us the link and yeah who wants to read all that mumbo jumbo. NO disrespect but yeah copy and paste me to death. I believe there will be prophets but I also believe none are needed and Jesus was the last hope for mankind. Remember Clancy the sleeping psychic...He in trance like moments told people what herbs and roots to take to cure maladys' and stuff all proven to work. This guy was genuine A great light came to him and a voice said he was to use his powers to heal and help people. If he did anything else he would suffer and he did. He located a oil reserve for a gentleman while in this trance like state and then after the guy struck oil . Clancy got severe headaches and the sessions stopped much to the dismay of people who wanted some hope. SOO what is my point if we revere prophets and psychics and claim their truths..We need to be careful is all....EDWARD cacey was his name LOL I wish sometimes I could shut this brain of mine off....Edward never earned or accepted money to help people....thus owing the great saying " they will know HIS people by their Actions" Amen GoD Bless you all
 
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catlover

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http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/JesuitPara.html
Here's the link


For some reason this post makes the word Jesuit look like *****.????????


Here it is:
The Great Controversy, page 235, paragraph 1
THE *******
"When appearing as members of their order, they wore a garb of sanctity, visiting prisons and hospitals, ministering to the sick and the poor, professing to have renounced the world, and bearing the sacred name of Jesus, who went about doing good. But under this blameless exterior the most criminal and deadly purposes were often concealed. It was a fundamental principle of the order that the end justifies the means. By this code, lying, theft, perjury, assassination, were not only pardonable but commendable, when they served the interests of the church. Under various disguises the ******* worked their way into offices of state, climbing up to be the counselors of kings, and shaping the policy of nations. They became servants to act as spies upon their masters. They established colleges for the sons of princes and nobles, and schools for the common people; and the children of Protestant parents were drawn into an observance of popish rites. All the outward pomp and display of the Romish worship was brought to bear to confuse the mind and dazzle and captivate the imagination, and thus the liberty for which the fathers had toiled and bled was betrayed by the sons. The ******* rapidly spread themselves over Europe, and wherever they went, there followed a revival of popery."

by Ellen White
 
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Sophia7

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catlover said:
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/JesuitPara.html
Here's the link


For some reason this post makes the word Jesuit look like *****.????????


Here it is:
The Great Controversy, page 235, paragraph 1
THE *******
"When appearing as members of their order, they wore a garb of sanctity, visiting prisons and hospitals, ministering to the sick and the poor, professing to have renounced the world, and bearing the sacred name of Jesus, who went about doing good. But under this blameless exterior the most criminal and deadly purposes were often concealed. It was a fundamental principle of the order that the end justifies the means. By this code, lying, theft, perjury, assassination, were not only pardonable but commendable, when they served the interests of the church. Under various disguises the ******* worked their way into offices of state, climbing up to be the counselors of kings, and shaping the policy of nations. They became servants to act as spies upon their masters. They established colleges for the sons of princes and nobles, and schools for the common people; and the children of Protestant parents were drawn into an observance of popish rites. All the outward pomp and display of the Romish worship was brought to bear to confuse the mind and dazzle and captivate the imagination, and thus the liberty for which the fathers had toiled and bled was betrayed by the sons. The ******* rapidly spread themselves over Europe, and wherever they went, there followed a revival of popery."

by Ellen White

This quote was included in what I posted. It was in reference to the Protestant Reformation and the time period during which the Jesuit Order was established. It had nothing to do with the Adventist Church, which didn't even exist yet at that time. Her references to Jesuits are generally to show how they influenced governments to honor the papacy.
 
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Sophia7

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JonathanSDA living word said:
why paste so much jibberish just send us the link and yeah who wants to read all that mumbo jumbo. NO disrespect but yeah copy and paste me to death. I believe there will be prophets but I also believe none are needed and Jesus was the last hope for mankind. Remember Clancy the sleeping psychic...He in trance like moments told people what herbs and roots to take to cure maladys' and stuff all proven to work. This guy was genuine A great light came to him and a voice said he was to use his powers to heal and help people. If he did anything else he would suffer and he did. He located a oil reserve for a gentleman while in this trance like state and then after the guy struck oil . Clancy got severe headaches and the sessions stopped much to the dismay of people who wanted some hope. SOO what is my point if we revere prophets and psychics and claim their truths..We need to be careful is all....EDWARD cacey was his name LOL I wish sometimes I could shut this brain of mine off....Edward never earned or accepted money to help people....thus owing the great saying " they will know HIS people by their Actions" Amen GoD Bless you all

If you don't like long posts, that's fine; don't read them.

If you don't like Ellen White, that's fine; don't read her writings.

However, there is no need to be rude. I posted all of that so that people would get her comments in context. (And there is no link; I got those quotes from the writings of EGW on CD.) That one quote that Catlover posted was taken out of context and misused on a website to give people the idea that EGW said that Jesuits would infiltrate the Adventist Church. This feeds into all of the conspiracy theories and paranoia that exist among some elements of the church. I have heard some Adventists accuse church leaders that they disagreed with of being Jesuits because they think that they do not uphold our doctrines. I know people who live in fear that someday they will be persecuted by those "false Adventists" whom they think are really Jesuits in disguise. I believe that if people are going to use quotes from Ellen White, they must take them in context and not skew them to fit their own agendas.
 
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ThreeAM

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Sophia7 said:
If you don't like long posts, that's fine; don't read them.

If you don't like Ellen White, that's fine; don't read her writings.

However, there is no need to be rude. I posted all of that so that people would get her comments in context. (And there is no link; I got those quotes from the writings of EGW on CD.) That one quote that Catlover posted was taken out of context and misused on a website to give people the idea that EGW said that Jesuits would infiltrate the Adventist Church. This feeds into all of the conspiracy theories and paranoia that exist among some elements of the church. I have heard some Adventists accuse church leaders that they disagreed with of being Jesuits because they think that they do not uphold our doctrines. I know people who live in fear that someday they will be persecuted by those "false Adventists" whom they think are really Jesuits in disguise. I believe that if people are going to use quotes from Ellen White, they must take them in context and not skew them to fit their own agendas.

:thumbsup: agree
 
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Cliff2

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catlover said:
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/JesuitPara.html
Here's the link


For some reason this post makes the word Jesuit look like *****.????????


Here it is:
The Great Controversy, page 235, paragraph 1
THE *******
"When appearing as members of their order, they wore a garb of sanctity, visiting prisons and hospitals, ministering to the sick and the poor, professing to have renounced the world, and bearing the sacred name of Jesus, who went about doing good. But under this blameless exterior the most criminal and deadly purposes were often concealed. It was a fundamental principle of the order that the end justifies the means. By this code, lying, theft, perjury, assassination, were not only pardonable but commendable, when they served the interests of the church. Under various disguises the ******* worked their way into offices of state, climbing up to be the counselors of kings, and shaping the policy of nations. They became servants to act as spies upon their masters. They established colleges for the sons of princes and nobles, and schools for the common people; and the children of Protestant parents were drawn into an observance of popish rites. All the outward pomp and display of the Romish worship was brought to bear to confuse the mind and dazzle and captivate the imagination, and thus the liberty for which the fathers had toiled and bled was betrayed by the sons. The ******* rapidly spread themselves over Europe, and wherever they went, there followed a revival of popery."

by Ellen White

As I have said I think it is possible the Jesuits may have inflitrated some levels of the SDA Church.

The quote you have used does not say that at all.

Again, I have no proof that it has happened just that some very high level leaders have turned their back on the Adventist Church for no apparent reason.

It is possible they may have been Jesuit plants but then it may not be that way at all.
 
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ThirdAngel

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JonathanSDA living word said:
why paste so much jibberish just send us the link and yeah who wants to read all that mumbo jumbo. NO disrespect but yeah copy and paste me to death. I believe there will be prophets but I also believe none are needed and Jesus was the last hope for mankind. Remember Clancy the sleeping psychic...He in trance like moments told people what herbs and roots to take to cure maladys' and stuff all proven to work. This guy was genuine A great light came to him and a voice said he was to use his powers to heal and help people. If he did anything else he would suffer and he did. He located a oil reserve for a gentleman while in this trance like state and then after the guy struck oil . Clancy got severe headaches and the sessions stopped much to the dismay of people who wanted some hope. SOO what is my point if we revere prophets and psychics and claim their truths..We need to be careful is all....EDWARD cacey was his name LOL I wish sometimes I could shut this brain of mine off....Edward never earned or accepted money to help people....thus owing the great saying " they will know HIS people by their Actions" Amen GoD Bless you all
Hi Jonathan (and all). I'm new to this thread.

Jonathan, if prophets are not needed, why does God bother to give the gift of prophecy at all? The apostle Paul mentions that the gift is still active in the church, and the book of Joel (2:28-31) says that when the Spirit shall be poured out before the Day of the Lord, the gift of prophecy shall be more important than ever.

If the spirit of prophecy is the "testimony of Jesus," (Rev. 19:10) then how can you say that you are all for Jesus, but don't believe in the possiblity of end time prophets?

Believe in the LORD your God, and you shall be established; believe His prophets, and you shall prosper. 2 Chron. 20:20

You can't use Edgar Cayce as an excuse to dismiss all end time prophets. The bible says that we are to test the spirits. If we have the Spirit within us, we will be able to recognize prophecy when we hear it.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. John 10:27
 
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OntheDL

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JonathanSDA living word said:
why paste so much jibberish just send us the link and yeah who wants to read all that mumbo jumbo. NO disrespect but yeah copy and paste me to death. I believe there will be prophets but I also believe none are needed and Jesus was the last hope for mankind.

Hi,

No one said prophets or Ellen White were hopes of our salvation. But prophets are needed.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.


Malachi 3:1
Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:

Acts 2

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:


 
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YeshuamySalvation

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OntheDL said:


Hi,

No one said prophets or Ellen White were hopes of our salvation. But prophets are needed.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.


Malachi 3:1
Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:

Acts 2

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:


But do you really believe EGW past the test of a true prophet of the L-rd.. I'm not questioning EGW relationship with G-d nor her Salvation so dont misunderstand me, i'm just asking do you really feel that she past the test? When you reply we will see from her own writings if she did past the test of a prophet of God or not...
 
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YeshuamySalvation

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OntheDL said:
Hi,

No one said prophets or Ellen White were hopes of our salvation. But prophets are needed.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.


Malachi 3:1
Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:

Acts 2

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:


Ok my friend see you later got to go to work...

Blessings..:)
 
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OntheDL

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YeshuamySalvation said:
But do you really believe EGW past the test of a true prophet of the L-rd.. I'm not questioning EGW relationship with G-d nor her Salvation so dont misunderstand me, i'm just asking do you really feel that she past the test? When you reply we will see from her own writings if she did past the test of a prophet of God or not...
If someone can not accept what the whole bible teaches, it goes beyond if Ellen White is a prophet or not.
 
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OntheDL

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Back to the original question...

A theory is just that: a theory if there is no proof or evident presented. As soon as one evidence is given, it becomes a possibility.

Take this for consideration: The Bush administration has said they have evidence linking Al Queda to September 11th. And to day, we are still waiting on it. In the mean time, US have waged two wars based on: a conspiracy theory.

Let me pose this question to you that don't believe in conspiracy theory: Are you that naive that you accept everything the media and government tells you? If not, then what?

"The person who doesn't believe conspiracy theory is one who has never studied them".

"Nothing happens in politics by accidents." FDR, 33degree mason.

"History is written by victors." If you are not in power, do you get to write your side of story?


Now back to the question...here is the Jesuit oath:

The Jesuit Oath of Induction is also recorded in the Congressional Record of the U.S.A. (House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913, pp. 3215-3216)


The Extreme Oath of the Jesuits:
"I, _ now, in the presence of Almighty God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed Michael the Archangel, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the holy Apostles St. Peter and St. Paul and all the saints and sacred hosts of heaven, and to you, my ghostly father, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola in the Pontificate of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear, that his holiness the Pope is Christ's Vice-regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by virtue of the keys of binding and loosing, given to his Holiness by my Savior, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical kings, princes, states, commonwealths and governments, all being illegal without his sacred confirmation and that they may safely be destroyed. Therefore, to the utmost of my power I shall and will defend this doctrine of his Holiness' right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and the now pretended authority and churches of England and Scotland, and branches of the same now established in Ireland and on the Continent of America and elsewhere; and all adherents in regard that they be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now renounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or state named Protestants or Liberals, or obedience to any of the laws, magistrates or officers.
I do further declare that the doctrine of the churches of England and Scotland, of the Calvinists, Huguenots and others of the name Protestants or Liberals to be damnable and they themselves damned who will not forsake the same.
I do further declare, that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of his Holiness' agents in any place wherever I shall be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, England, Ireland or America, or in any other Kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my uttermost to extirpate the heretical Protestants or Liberals' doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, regal or otherwise.
I do further promise and declare, that notwithstanding I am dispensed with, to assume my religion heretical, for the propaganda of the Mother Church's interest, to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they may entrust me and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstance whatever; but to execute all that shall be proposed, given in charge or discovered unto me, by you, my ghostly father, or any of this sacred covenant.
I do further promise and declare, that I will have no opinion or will of my own, or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the Militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ.
That I may go to any part of the world withersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions of the North, the burning sands of the desert of Africa, or the jungles of India, to the centers of civilization of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America, without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things whatsoever communicated to me.

I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants' heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.

In confirmation of which, I hereby dedicate my life, my soul and all my corporal powers, and with this dagger which I now receive, I will subscribe my name written in my own blood, in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein, with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal hell forever!
All of which, I, _, do swear by the Blessed Trinity and blessed Sacraments, which I am now to receive, to perform and on my part to keep inviolable; and do call all the heavenly and glorious host of heaven to witness the blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist, and witness the same further with my name written and with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and sealed in the face of this holy covenant."

In GC p564, E White wrote that she (the woman) has never changed her doctrine and her claim infallability. Given an opportunity, she will again impose her will on the rest of the world.
 
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Sophia7

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Back to the original question, Ellen White's comments on Jesuits were in reference to their influence in governments, not in the Adventist Church. In fact, she never mentioned them specifically in regard to the Adventist Church. She definitely viewed their establishment as an attempt by the Catholic Church to overthrow the Protestant Reformation and to preserve papal supremacy, which does relate to our eschatological beliefs. She did not say that Jesuits would infiltrate the leadership of our church.

The danger that I see here is that if we buy into conspiracy theories without evidence, we will falsely accuse people just because we disagree with them. If church leaders, even those in high positions, are wrong about certain things or even if they leave the church, that does not mean that they are Jesuits. I know people who have drawn that conclusion, but without concrete evidence, that is a fallacious assumption.

Even church leaders are prone to going astray, just as we all are. Even church leaders are capable of turning away from biblical truth if they are not truly converted and committed to Christ and depending on His power in their daily lives. Perhaps church leaders are especially susceptible to thinking that they are godly because of their positions and losing sight of Jesus even as they claim to be working for Him. However, that does not make them Jesuits; it makes them human and in need of our prayers.
 
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Cliff2

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Sophia7 said:
Back to the original question, Ellen White's comments on Jesuits were in reference to their influence in governments, not in the Adventist Church. In fact, she never mentioned them specifically in regard to the Adventist Church. She definitely viewed their establishment as an attempt by the Catholic Church to overthrow the Protestant Reformation and to preserve papal supremacy, which does relate to our eschatological beliefs. She did not say that Jesuits would infiltrate the leadership of our church.

The danger that I see here is that if we buy into conspiracy theories without evidence, we will falsely accuse people just because we disagree with them. If church leaders, even those in high positions, are wrong about certain things or even if they leave the church, that does not mean that they are Jesuits. I know people who have drawn that conclusion, but without concrete evidence, that is a fallacious assumption.

Even church leaders are prone to going astray, just as we all are. Even church leaders are capable of turning away from biblical truth if they are not truly converted and committed to Christ and depending on His power in their daily lives. Perhaps church leaders are especially susceptible to thinking that they are godly because of their positions and losing sight of Jesus even as they claim to be working for Him. However, that does not make them Jesuits; it makes them human and in need of our prayers.

I am yet to find in any of the work of EGW where she says the Jesuits will infiltrate the SDA Church.
 
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catlover

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OntheDL said:
Back to the original question...

A theory is just that: a theory if there is no proof or evident presented. As soon as one evidence is given, it becomes a possibility.

Take this for consideration: The Bush administration has said they have evidence linking Al Queda to September 11th. And to day, we are still waiting on it. In the mean time, US have waged two wars based on: a conspiracy theory.

Let me pose this question to you that don't believe in conspiracy theory: Are you that naive that you accept everything the media and government tells you? If not, then what?

"The person who doesn't believe conspiracy theory is one who has never studied them".

"Nothing happens in politics by accidents." FDR, 33degree mason.

"History is written by victors." If you are not in power, do you get to write your side of story?


.

I don't believe everything the media tells me. More likely Flight 93 was shot down.
The rest of the details of 9-11 I won't even post about. Who knows, Big Brother could be watching.
 
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OntheDL

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catlover said:
I don't believe everything the media tells me. More likely Flight 93 was shot down. 9-11 I won't even post what I think about that.

Where was the reckage of Flight 93? And where was the reckage of the plane that crashed into Pentegon? And where are black boxes from the 4 planes that the government claimed to never have been found? These black boxes are designed to withstand plane crashes.
 
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Sophia7

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OntheDL said:
Where was the reckage of Flight 93? And where was the reckage of the plane that crashed into Pentegon? And where are black boxes from the 4 planes that the government claimed to never have been found? These black boxes are designed to withstand plane crashes.

Actually, the government acknowledges finding the black boxes from two of the planes (those that crashed into the Pentagon and the field in Pennsylvania)--just not the two that hit the World Trade Center. Workers who were helping with cleanup at the site claimed to have found three of the four flight recorders from the two planes that hit the WTC; however, the government and the 9/11 Commission apparently deny that rumor. I suppose it is possible that they were never found in the wreckage; how would we know? There are all kinds of conspiracy theories regarding 9/11, but what good does it do any of us to speculate and make assumptions when we do not have all of the evidence? I think some discernment and rational thinking are in order. Buying into conspiracy theories without reasonable proof whenever something mysterious or unexplained or objectionable happens is not a great idea.
 
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OntheDL

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Sophia7 said:
Actually, the government acknowledges finding the black boxes from two of the planes (those that crashed into the Pentagon and the field in Pennsylvania)--just not the two that hit the World Trade Center. Workers who were helping with cleanup at the site claimed to have found three of the four flight recorders from the two planes that hit the WTC; however, the government and the 9/11 Commission apparently deny that rumor. I suppose it is possible that they were never found in the wreckage; how would we know? There are all kinds of conspiracy theories regarding 9/11, but what good does it do any of us to speculate and make assumptions when we do not have all of the evidence? I think some discernment and rational thinking are in order. Buying into conspiracy theories without reasonable proof whenever something mysterious or unexplained or objectionable happens is not a great idea.
Aviation is no mystery. Whenever a plane is crashed, the black box sends a beacon signal so it can be retrieved. And wreckage can be reconstructed back to the air plane. Remember the TWA plane went down to bottom of Atlantic off of Long Island? Almost and whole plane was reconstructed.

How come is in these cases, air planes crashed to the ground, but not a single piece of wreckage was ever found? No wings, no tail section, no wheels, no engine parts. And why the Pentagon did not surfer from fire damage from all the jet fuel off of cross continental flight? Did you see the CNN footage after the crash but before the roof collapsed in the Pentagon? How could a 757 of wingspan of over 100 feet fit into a 16 feet hole? Where did the government say they have the 2 boxes? If so, where is the flight data?

What we have is a lot inconsistency between the version given to us and what really happened.

Do we dig deeper into finding the clues and evidence or just dismiss it as mysterious or unexplained?

How is that some of us don't see it coming that the government needed these kind of disasters to enforce Patriot Act and other laws to legislate away our freedom? Don’t we see the trend? After the Soviet Union was gone, we have one event after another one. The end result? Our freedom and rights are taken away. Until when will we wake up and realize?

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
 
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