Is This True? - Limited Atonement

[FreeGrace2]

It's a bit disturbing that there is at least one person who believes this. And believes there is an outer darkness in heaven. I hope this is not a widespread belief.

I never said there was an "outer darkness" in heaven. I thought everyone understood the figurative language that Jesus used in Matt 22 regarding the parable of the kingdom. It's all figurative language. There is nothing literal there, as far as I know.

So your claim of what you thought I believed is quite wrong. Please acknowledge your error of my view.

It is very disturbing when others mangle my views in spite of what I've been very clear about. And then don't apologize when corrected. It takes grace and humility to do that.

 

[Hammster]

I never said there was an "outer darkness" in heaven. I thought everyone understood the figurative language that Jesus used in Matt 22 regarding the parable of the kingdom. It's all figurative language. There is nothing literal there, as far as I know.

So your claim of what you thought I believed is quite wrong. Please acknowledge your error of my view.

It is very disturbing when others mangle my views in spite of what I've been very clear about. And then don't apologize when corrected. It takes grace and humility to do that.

You did say there was an outer darkness in heaven when we discussed Matt 22.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You did say there was an outer darkness in heaven when we discussed Matt 22.

It was very clear that I was describing the figurative language of Jesus' parable. In fact, Jesus said there was an outer darkness in His parable.

 

[Skala]

It was very clear that I was describing the figurative language of Jesus' parable. In fact, Jesus said there was an outer darkness in His parable.

Figurative language is not allowed in the Bible.

All means all
men means men
(I guess women are screwed!)

 

[Hammster]

It was very clear that I was describing the figurative language of Jesus' parable. In fact, Jesus said there was an outer darkness in His parable.

And you equated that to be a part of heaven where there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth. But you said Jesus would wipe away every tear.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Figurative language is not allowed in the Bible.

All means all
men means men
(I guess women are screwed!)

I guess your view is quite skewed.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And you equated that to be a part of heaven where there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth. But you said Jesus would wipe away every tear.

Sure, after the Bema, where believers get what is due them, whether good or bad.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Appears the recompensed bad deeds will make some cry.

 

[Hammster]

Sure, after the Bema, where believers get what is due them, whether good or bad.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Appears the recompensed bad deeds will make some cry.

So now it's literal? A few posts ago you said it was figurative.

 

[stenerson]

Sure, after the Bema, where believers get what is due them, whether good or bad.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Appears the recompensed bad deeds will make some cry.

Let me get this straight. You think believers will suffer outer darkness and the place of weeping, gnashing of teeth?

 

[sdowney717]

Let me get this straight. You think believers will suffer outer darkness and the place of weeping, gnashing of teeth?

yes, he did say that.
But God tells us you are light in the Lord.
Eph 5

8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light

 

[FreeGrace2]

So now it's literal? A few posts ago you said it was figurative.

What, exactly did I say was 'literal'? Surely not 2 Cor 5:10.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Let me get this straight. You think believers will suffer outer darkness and the place of weeping, gnashing of teeth?

In the parable of the wedding feast, such occasions were normally at night. So when the improperly dressed guest was thrown OUT of the banquet hall, take a guess as to where he might end up, in the parable. OUTside the banquet hall, at night. Which is dark. And he'll be frustrated for screwing up and not following instructions as to proper attire.

btw, according to history, back then it was customary for the king to provide the wedding garments for the guests, so the guy thrown out simply didn't take his, or put it on. All his own fault.

The parable has nothing to do with getting into heaven, as it seems many think. It is about being rewarded for "deeds done in the body". Attending the wedding feast will be a great reward for faithful believers. But I believe the parable indicates that there will be believers who won't be attending the feast. They'll be waiting OUTside until it's over.

 

[FreeGrace2]

yes, he did say that.
But God tells us you are light in the Lord.
Eph 5

Because believers ARE "light in the Lord", that is WHY the command "to walk as children of light".

If just being "light in the Lord" equates to walking as children of light, there would be no need for such a command.

The command is instructive. Not all believers are walking as children of light. Since you imbedded Eph 5:8 in quotes, it doesn't appear in my response here, so I'll repeat it:

Ephesians 5:8
for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light

The very fact that we are commanded to walk as children of light indicates that such a walk is not automatic nor guaranteed.

The guy thrown out of the banquet hall in the parable of the wedding feast had not been walking as children of light.

 

[sdowney717]

Because believers ARE "light in the Lord", that is WHY the command "to walk as children of light".

If just being "light in the Lord" equates to walking as children of light, there would be no need for such a command.

The command is instructive. Not all believers are walking as children of light. Since you imbedded Eph 5:8 in quotes, it doesn't appear in my response here, so I'll repeat it:

Ephesians 5:8
for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light

The very fact that we are commanded to walk as children of light indicates that such a walk is not automatic nor guaranteed.

The guy thrown out of the banquet hall in the parable of the wedding feast had not been walking as children of light.

It says we ARE light in the Lord so then the admonition is walk like you ARE.

That guy thrown out into outer darkness was thrown into hell.
Hell has darkness, heaven has light.
Hell contains outer darkness, fiery furnace, weeping, teeth gnashing, wailing, unprofitable servants (things which offend God), being bound and being cast into a place where they would not willingly go into.

Matthew 13
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Matthew 13
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 8:12
But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 22:13
Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Matthew 24:51
and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:30
And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Luke 13:28
There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.

 

[Hammster]

What, exactly did I say was 'literal'? Surely not 2 Cor 5:10.

The outer darkness where the weeping takes place. First you said it was literal, then figurative, then literal again.

Perhaps, to clear things up, you can tell us what is meant by outer darkness in Matt 22.

 

[Hammster]

In the parable of the wedding feast, such occasions were normally at night. So when the improperly dressed guest was thrown OUT of the banquet hall, take a guess as to where he might end up, in the parable. OUTside the banquet hall, at night. Which is dark. And he'll be frustrated for screwing up and not following instructions as to proper attire.

btw, according to history, back then it was customary for the king to provide the wedding garments for the guests, so the guy thrown out simply didn't take his, or put it on. All his own fault.

The parable has nothing to do with getting into heaven, as it seems many think. It is about being rewarded for "deeds done in the body". Attending the wedding feast will be a great reward for faithful believers. But I believe the parable indicates that there will be believers who won't be attending the feast. They'll be waiting OUTside until it's over.

Isn't the wedding feast the celebration of Christ and His Bride? Isn't it about Christ? Are you seriously saying that He will be celebrating with an incomplete bride?

 

[stenerson]

btw, according to history, back then it was customary for the king to provide the wedding garments for the guests, so the guy thrown out simply didn't take his, or put it on. All his own fault.

The parable has nothing to do with getting into heaven, as it seems many think. It is about being rewarded for "deeds done in the body". Attending the wedding feast will be a great reward for faithful believers. But I believe the parable indicates that there will be believers who won't be attending the feast. They'll be waiting OUTside until it's over.

The context of the parable is not about saved believers that had to miss out on the feast due to their works or lack there of.
The context is the Pharisees, and Jews, supposed children of the kingdom that rejected Christ, killed God's servants, had no interest in the Son.
As to the man that was thrown out "Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." This is a description of Hell. Similar to the warnings in the book of Jude concerning false, troublesome members in their mist. :
"12These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever. "

 

[FreeGrace2]

It says we ARE light in the Lord so then the admonition is walk like you ARE.

Please don't dismiss the command to do it. There is nothing automatic or guaranteed. Hence, the command to do it.

That guy thrown out into outer darkness was thrown into hell.

Except the parable has him IN the banquet hall. Are people thrown out of heaven after getting there, into hell? Not on your life.

Hell has darkness, heaven has light.

It's also dark OUTside a banquet hall at night.

Hell contains outer darkness, fiery furnace, weeping, teeth gnashing, wailing, unprofitable servants (things which offend God), being bound and being cast into a place where they would not willingly go into.

I can't say what hell contains, since I've never been there, nor will I ever be going there.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The outer darkness where the weeping takes place. First you said it was literal, then figurative, then literal again.

Perhaps, to clear things up, you can tell us what is meant by outer darkness in Matt 22.

OUTside the banquet hall at night. Follow the words in the parable. It's all quite clear.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Isn't the wedding feast the celebration of Christ and His Bride? Isn't it about Christ? Are you seriously saying that He will be celebrating with an incomplete bride?

The guy wasn't thrown out of heaven, just not participating in the celebration, due to loss of that reward.