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Is this the beginning of the Shaking?

S

Sunrunner

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I was just thinking: is this the beginning of the Shaking? Anyone who has taken the time to peer into the internal issues of Adventism will see that there is a big controversy between two polar opposites. Ever since 1888 and onward, we've been engaged in an inner conflict, even if many do not see it.

Now, I'm sure that the Shaking is much more intense, but are we possibly at the Alpha, the morning, the steps leading up to the climax of the Shaking? During the height of the Shaking, the body of Adventism will convulse and be engulfed in a major crisis (which seems to be in the future for the Church). It is only after the Shaking that the Sifting will begin (when the tares are removed from the wheats).

What do you think?
 

Sophia7

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It is only after the Shaking that the Sifting will begin (when the tares are removed from the wheats).

What do you think?

I have to respond to the part about the parable of the wheat and the tares because this is a major problem that I have with Ellen White. I know that what I post will prompt some to conclude that the "Shaking" has begun and that I am evidence of the falling away, but just listen to what the Bible says.

Here is the parable of the wheat and the tares:

MT 13:24 Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

MT 13:27 "The owner's servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

MT 13:28 " `An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, `Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

MT 13:29 " `No,' he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "
Now read Jesus' explanation of it a few verses later:

MT 13:36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."

MT 13:37 He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

MT 13:40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Notice the part that I put in bold. Jesus interpreted His own parable, and He said that the field is the world. Ellen White (in Christ's Object Lessons) contradicted this when she wrote that the field is the church. For this reason, Adventists apply this to our own church, but that's not what the Bible says. The Bible itself clearly states that the separating of the wheat and the tares is the harvesting by angels at the end of the world, not the sifting of "true" Adventists from "false" Adventists during a "Shaking" of our church.

There are true believers in every church and even among those who don't attened any church at all. We can't assume that everyone who doesn't agree with us is lost. We can't judge anyone's salvation. Adventists seriously distort Jesus' purpose in telling this parable when they apply it only to the church. Jesus applied it to the whole world.
 
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Sophia7

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what's "the Shaking"?

"The Shaking" is something that Ellen White saw in a vision. Here is what she wrote about it:

Testimonies for the Church, Volume One, Chapter 32: " The Shaking"

November 20, 1857, I was shown the people of God, and saw them mightily shaken. Some, with strong faith and agonizing cries, were pleading with God. Their countenances were pale, and marked with deep anxiety, expressive of their
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internal struggle. Firmness and great earnestness were expressed in their countenances, while large drops of perspiration fell from their foreheads. Now and then their faces would light up with the marks of God's approbation, and again the same solemn, earnest, anxious look would settle upon them. ["BLOW THE TRUMPET IN ZION, SANCTIFY A FAST, CALL A SOLEMN ASSEMBLY: GATHER THE PEOPLE, SANCTIFY THE CONGREGATION, ASSEMBLE THE ELDERS. . . . LET THE PRIESTS THE MINISTERS OF THE Lord, WEEP BETWEEN THE PORCH AND THE ALTAR AND LET THEM SAY, SPARE THY PEOPLE, O Lord, AND GIVE NOT THINE HERITAGE TO REPROACH, THAT THE HEATHEN SHOULD RULE OVER THEM: WHEREFORE SHOULD THEY SAY AMONG THE PEOPLE, WHERE IS THEIR God?" JOEL 2:15-17.

"SUBMIT YOURSELVES THEREFORE TO God. RESIST THE DEVIL, AND HE WILL FLEE FROM YOU. DRAW NIGH TO God, AND HE WILL DRAW NIGH TO YOU. CLEANSE YOUR HANDS, YE SINNERS; AND PURIFY YOUR HEARTS, YE DOUBLE-MINDED. BE AFFLICTED, AND MOURN, AND WEEP: LET YOUR LAUGHTER BE TURNED TO MOURNING, AND YOUR JOY TO HEAVINESS. HUMBLE YOURSELVES IN THE SIGHT OF THE Lord, AND HE SHALL LIFT YOU UP." JAMES 4:7-10.

"GATHER YOURSELVES TOGETHER, YEA, GATHER TOGETHER, O NATION NOT DESIRED; BEFORE THE DECREE BRING FORTH, BEFORE THE DAY PASS AS THE CHAFF, BEFORE THE FIERCE ANGER OF THE Lord COME UPON YOU, BEFORE THE DAY OF THE Lord'S ANGER COME UPON YOU. SEEK YE THE Lord, ALL YE MEEK OF THE EARTH, WHICH HAVE WROUGHT HIS JUDGMENT; SEEK RIGHTEOUSNESS, SEEK MEEKNESS: IT MAY BE YE SHALL BE HID IN THE DAY OF THE Lord'S ANGER." ZEPHANIAH 2:1-3.] {1T 179.3}

Evil angels crowded around them, pressing their darkness upon them, to shut out Jesus from their view, that their eyes might be drawn to the darkness that surrounded them, and they distrust God and next murmur against Him. Their only safety was in keeping their eyes directed upward. Angels of God had charge over His people, and as the poisonous atmosphere from the evil angels was pressed around these anxious ones, the heavenly angels were continually wafting their wings over them, to scatter the thick darkness. {1T 180.1}

Some, I saw, did not participate in this work of agonizing and pleading. They seemed indifferent and careless. They were not resisting the darkness around them, and it shut
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them in like a thick cloud. The angels of God left these, and I saw them hastening to the assistance of those who were struggling with all their energies to resist the evil angels, and trying to help themselves by calling upon God with perseverance. But the angels left those who made no effort to help themselves, and I lost sight of them. As the praying ones continued their earnest cries, a ray of light from Jesus would at times come to them, to encourage their hearts, and light up their countenances. {1T 180.2}

I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen, and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this will cause a shaking among God's people. {1T 181.1}

The testimony of the True Witness has not been half heeded. The solemn testimony upon which the destiny of the church hangs has been lightly esteemed, if not entirely disregarded. This testimony must work deep repentance, and all that truly receive it will obey it and be purified. {1T 181.2}

Said the angel: "List ye!" Soon I heard a voice that sounded like many musical instruments, all in perfect strains, sweet and harmonious. It surpassed any music I had ever heard. It seemed to be so full of mercy, compassion, and elevating, holy joy. It thrilled through my whole being. Said the angel: "Look ye!" My attention was then turned to the company I had seen, who were mightily shaken. I was shown those whom I had before seen weeping and praying with agony of spirit. The company of guardian angels around them had been doubled, and they were clothed with an armor from their head to their feet. They moved in exact order, firmly, like a company of soldiers. Their countenances
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expressed the severe conflict which they had endured, the agonizing struggle they had passed through. Yet their features, marked with severe internal anguish, now shone with the light and glory of heaven. They had obtained the victory, and it called forth from them the deepest gratitude, and holy, sacred joy. {1T 181.3}

The numbers of this company had lessened. Some had been shaken out, and left by the way. ["I KNOW THY WORKS, THAT THOU ART NEITHER COLD NOR HOT: I WOULD THOU WERT COLD OR HOT. SO THEN BECAUSE THOU ART LUKEWARM, AND NEITHER COLD NOR HOT, I WILL SPEW THEE OUT OF MY MOUTH. BECAUSE THOU SAYEST, I AM RICH, AND INCREASED WITH GOODS, AND HAVE NEED OF NOTHING; AND KNOWEST NOT THAT THOU ART WRETCHED, AND MISERABLE, AND POOR, AND BLIND, AND NAKED." REVELATION 3:15-17.] The careless and indifferent, who did not join with those who prized victory and salvation enough to perseveringly plead and agonize for it, did not obtain it, and they were left behind in darkness, but their numbers were immediately made up by others taking hold of the truth and coming into the ranks. Still the evil angels pressed around them, but they could have no power over them. ["FOR WE WRESTLE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, BUT AGAINST PRINCIPALITIES, AGAINST POWERS, AGAINST THE RULERS OF THE DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD, AGAINST SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS IN HIGH PLACES. [OR, "WICKED SPIRITS IN HEAVENLY PLACES," AS IN THE MARGIN.] WHEREFORE TAKE UNTO YOU THE WHOLE ARMOR OF God, THAT YE MAY BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND IN THE EVIL DAY, AND HAVING DONE ALL, TO STAND. STAND THEREFORE, HAVING YOUR LOINS GIRT ABOUT WITH TRUTH, AND HAVING ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS; AND YOUR FEET SHOD WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; ABOVE ALL, TAKING THE SHIELD OF FAITH, WHEREWITH YE SHALL BE ABLE TO QUENCH ALL THE FIERY DARTS OF THE WICKED. AND TAKE THE HELMET OF SALVATION, AND THE SWORD OF THE SPIRIT, WHICH IS THE WORD OF God: PRAYING ALWAYS WITH ALL PRAYER AND SUPPLICATION IN THE SPIRIT, AND WATCHING THEREUNTO WITH ALL PERSEVERANCE AND SUPPLICATION FOR ALL SAINTS." EPHESIANS 6:12-18.] {1T 182.1}

I heard those clothed with the armor speak forth the truth in great power. It had effect. I saw those who had been bound; some wives had been bound by their husbands, and some children had been bound by their parents. The honest
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who had been held or prevented from hearing the truth, now eagerly laid hold of it. All fear of their relatives was gone. The truth alone was exalted to them. It was dearer and more precious than life. They had been hungering and thirsting for truth. I asked what had made this great change. An angel answered: "It is the latter rain, the refreshing from the presence of the Lord, the loud cry of the third angel." {1T 182.2}

Great power was with these chosen ones. Said the angel: "Look ye!" My attention was turned to the wicked, or unbelievers. They were all astir. The zeal and power with the people of God had aroused and enraged them. Confusion, confusion was on every side. I saw measures taken against this company, who had the power and light of God. Darkness thickened around them, yet there they stood, approved of God, and trusting in Him. I saw them perplexed. Next I heard them crying unto God earnestly. Through the day and night their cry ceased not. ["AND SHALL NOT God AVENGE HIS OWN ELECT, WHICH CRY DAY AND NIGHT UNTO HIM, THOUGH HE BEAR LONG WITH THEM? I TELL YOU THAT HE WILL AVENGE THEM SPEEDILY. NEVERTHELESS WHEN THE SON OF MAN COMETH, SHALL HE FIND FAITH ON THE EARTH?" LUKE 18:7, 8. SEE ALSO REVELATION 14:14, 15.] I heard these words: "Thy will, O God, be done! If it can glorify Thy name, make a way of escape for Thy people! Deliver us from the heathen round about us! They have appointed us unto death; but Thine arm can bring salvation." These are all the words that I can bring to mind. All seemed to have a deep sense of their unworthiness, and manifested entire submission to the will of God. Yet like Jacob, every one, without an exception, was earnestly pleading and wrestling for deliverance. {1T 183.1}

Soon after they had commenced their earnest cry, the angels, in sympathy, would have gone to their deliverance. But a tall, commanding angel suffered them not. Said he: "The will of God is not yet fulfilled. They must drink of the cup. They must be baptized with the baptism."
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{1T 183.2}

Soon I heard the voice of God which shook the heavens and the earth. ["THE LORD ALSO SHALL ROAR OUT OF ZION, AND UTTER HIS VOICE FROM JERUSALEM; AND THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH SHALL SHAKE: BUT THE LORD WILL BE THE HOPE OF HIS PEOPLE, AND THE STRENGTH OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL." JOEL 3:16. SEE ALSO HebrewS 12:26; REVELATION 16:17.] There was a mighty earthquake. Buildings were shaken down, and fell on every side. I then heard a triumphant shout of victory, loud, musical, and clear. I looked upon this company, who, a short time before, were in such distress and bondage. Their captivity was turned. A glorious light shone upon them. How beautiful they then looked! All weariness and marks of care were gone; health and beauty were seen in every countenance. Their enemies, the heathen around them, fell like dead men. They could not endure the light that shone upon the delivered, holy ones. This light and glory remained upon them until Jesus was seen in the clouds of heaven, and the faithful, tried company were changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from glory to glory. The graves were opened and the saints came forth, clothed with immortality, crying: "Victory over death and the grave!" and together with the living saints they were caught up to meet their Lord in the air, while rich, musical shouts of glory and victory proceeded from every immortal tongue. {1T 184.1}

--From The Complete Published Ellen G. White Writings on CD
 
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O

OntheDL

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I have to respond to the part about the parable of the wheat and the tares because this is a major problem that I have with Ellen White. I know that what I post will prompt some to conclude that the "Shaking" has begun and that I am evidence of the falling away, but just listen to what the Bible says.

Here is the parable of the wheat and the tares:

Now read Jesus' explanation of it a few verses later:

Notice the part that I put in bold. Jesus interpreted His own parable, and He said that the field is the world. Ellen White (in Christ's Object Lessons) contradicted this when she wrote that the field is the church. For this reason, Adventists apply this to our own church, but that's not what the Bible says. The Bible itself clearly states that the separating of the wheat and the tares is the harvesting by angels at the end of the world, not the sifting of "true" Adventists from "false" Adventists during a "Shaking" of our church.

There are true believers in every church and even among those who don't attened any church at all. We can't assume that everyone who doesn't agree with us is lost. We can't judge anyone's salvation. Adventists seriously distort Jesus' purpose in telling this parable when they apply it only to the church. Jesus applied it to the whole world.

Jesus is coming for His true believers. Those who're sitting on the fence will have to make a desicion whom they are really for just prior to the final climax. That's the shaking.

There are many nominal christians in the SDA churches. And I know they will fall away and accept the Sunday when the pressure mounts because they live their lives now for pleasure and convenience and do not stand for the truth.

How does it in any way contradict the Bible?

Ellen White never said those out side of SDA church are lost. In fact, in many places, she wrote God has children in protestant churches, and many more in Catholic church who worship God sincerely based on the light was revealed to them unlike many Adventists who do not follow the light.

I cannot see the logic of your post.
 
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Sophia7

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Jesus is coming for His true believers. Those who're sitting on the fence will have to make a desicion whom they are really for just prior to the final climax. That's the shaking.

There are many nominal christians in the SDA churches. And I know they will fall away and accept the Sunday when the pressure mounts because they live their lives now for pleasure and convenience and do not stand for the truth.

How does it in any way contradict the Bible?

Ellen White never said those out side of SDA church are lost. In fact, in many places, she wrote God has children in protestant churches, and many more in Catholic church who worship God sincerely based on the light was revealed to them unlike many Adventists who do not follow the light.

I cannot see the logic of your post.

The contradiction is that the Bible says that the field is the world, and EGW says that it's the church. The two are clearly not in agreement.

The parable of the wheat and the tares was related to the "Shaking" by the OP, but the parable says nothing about people leaving the church during such a time. It simply says that true believers and false believers will live together in the world until the harvest.
 
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S

Sunrunner

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I don't think that Mrs. White directly paralleled the Shaking and Sifting to Jesus' parable. The terms wheat and tares are used, of course, but does she relate the visions as fulfillments of that parable?

If so (but I don't think she did): http://www.ellen-white.com/EllenWhiteMistakes.html

Even the inspired are fallible. Their visions can't be false, but some of their thoughts can.
 
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OntheDL

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The contradiction is that the Bible says that the field is the world, and EGW says that it's the church. The two are clearly not in agreement.

The parable of the wheat and the tares was related to the "Shaking" by the OP, but the parable says nothing about people leaving the church during such a time. It simply says that true believers and false believers will live together in the world until the harvest.

Read the writings your quoted above. It says the shaking is just prior to the second coming.

We both know the current condition of the church. Do you think it's possible that after the sunday law is put into legislation, the majority of the SDAs will fall away and accept sunday?

There is no contradition here that I can see.
 
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tall73

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I don't see any contradiction with the concept of the shaking itself. Jesus spoke of the love of many growing cold due to wickedness, and the Scriptures also speak of even the elect, if possible, being in danger of being deceived.
 
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Jon0388g

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I've always been taught that the 'shaking' refers to the close of probation - when Jesus finishes judgement in heaven, and is finally ready to mount the throne and return. Isn't this when there will only be two camps on earth; the wicked/and the righteous - whether SDA or not? This idea has been related to the verse in Revelation "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong.....let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness..." Revelation 22:11

At this point, there won't be any 'adventists' or 'baptists' or 'catholics' - only the remnant of God. That is what I understand to be the shaking.
 
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S

Sunrunner

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I've always been taught that the 'shaking' refers to the close of probation - when Jesus finishes judgement in heaven, and is finally ready to mount the throne and return. Isn't this when there will only be two camps on earth; the wicked/and the righteous - whether SDA or not? This idea has been related to the verse in Revelation "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong.....let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness..." Revelation 22:11

At this point, there won't be any 'adventists' or 'baptists' or 'catholics' - only the remnant of God. That is what I understand to be the shaking.

That's an interesting interpretation. That makes me think, though, about how great the last days will be... when a Christian will be a Christian and we won't have to use denominational names. :) That will be true ecumenism, not the false unity people push for today.
 
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Sophia7

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I don't see any contradiction with the concept of the shaking itself. Jesus spoke of the love of many growing cold due to wickedness, and the Scriptures also speak of even the elect, if possible, being in danger of being deceived.

Yes, I don't have a problem with the idea that some of those who claim to be Christians at some point will fall away.

The contradiction that I was referring to was the application of the parable of the wheat and the tares. The application that EGW made changes the meaning completely.
 
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Sophia7

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I don't think that Mrs. White directly paralleled the Shaking and Sifting to Jesus' parable. The terms wheat and tares are used, of course, but does she relate the visions as fulfillments of that parable?

If so (but I don't think she did): http://www.ellen-white.com/EllenWhiteMistakes.html

Even the inspired are fallible. Their visions can't be false, but some of their thoughts can.

No, I wasn't saying that she made a direct parallel. I was responding to your comments in the OP that related the two. By the way, thanks for the link.

On the subject of whether EGW could be mistaken about some things and still be a prophet, I don't think she left much room for questions about whether everything she wrote was inspired or whether she sometimes gave her own opinions, which could be wrong. I would refer back to the thread Ellen White and Inspiration, which included a discussion on that, so as not to hijack this thread.
 
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Telaquapacky

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Sophia, you made a good obeservation in that Sister White confined the shaking to the church, and Jesus' parable of the wheat and the tares referred to the world. But parables often have more than one application.

Even in Jesus' time, there were those who fell away. In John, Chapter 6 when Jesus was talking about "eat my flesh and drink my blood," a lot of the disciples threw in the towel. So I don't think that the parable of the wheat and the tares precludes an pre-advent shaking, rather it tells us not to kick people out of the church, (or shun them) because they don't seem to be as orthodox or faithful as we are.
 
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