Is this scriptural?

[Genuine]

God is good. He is for us - not against us. He does not use tragedy, illness or acts of nature to teach us.

This statement was in the Statement of Faith for a church hubby and I were thinking about visiting. We decided not to visit the church after reading their Statement of Faith. Not just because of this one, but there were a few that just struck us wrong.

Anyways, just wondering if anyone else has heard of this. This is a really big church in our city. I just don't understand how a Christian can believe this and actually have read the Bible. I can think of several times where God has used illness, tradgedy, and acts of nature to teach lessons...

Just something I've never heard before...

 

[MamaZ]

Well do you believe that God uses all these to teach His children?

 

[Genuine]

Well do you believe that God uses all these to teach His children?

Maybe not all at once or on the same person... but for sure He has and does use them to teach lessons.

 

[MamaZ]

Maybe not all at once or on the same person... but for sure He has and does use them to teach lessons.

Well actually scripture tells us that God will work all things out for Good to those who are called according to His purpose. God has given us His word to intruct and teach us. He has given us His Spirit to lead us into all truth. Gods Children are loved dearly by Him. Now to those who do not know Christ the protection and Love of the Father does not rest upon them. For they are outside of His covenant. Now there are some that because of disaster realize time on earth is short and With this disaster God may draw a person to Him. But this is not what the disaster was for. He just turned it out for Good and His Glory.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Read the book of Job and tell us that God does not ordain bad things to happen to good people (believers) for their instruction.

I would run for the hills if I encountered something like you did in a statement of faith.

 

[tm2cruz]

This statement was in the Statement of Faith for a church hubby and I were thinking about visiting. We decided not to visit the church after reading their Statement of Faith. Not just because of this one, but there were a few that just struck us wrong.

Anyways, just wondering if anyone else has heard of this. This is a really big church in our city. I just don't understand how a Christian can believe this and actually have read the Bible. I can think of several times where God has used illness, tradgedy, and acts of nature to teach lessons...

Just something I've never heard before...

"God is good. He is for us - not against us."
-It's true if we are for God too.

"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose."
-Romans 8:28

"If you love Me, keep My commandments."
-John 14:15

"He does not use tragedy, illness or acts of nature to teach us."
-He's not the one who's causing it but He will allow it. If we walk out of His protection He can't control your situation. We grow trough opposition of the enemy.

 

[MrPolo]

God is good. He is for us - not against us. He does not use tragedy, illness or acts of nature to teach us.

I don't think it's Scriptural. For example:

Hebrews 12:7-8 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

or

2 Corinthians 12:7-10 And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

[katholikos]

The part that says "God is good. He is for us - not against us" is definitely true.

As for the part that says "He does not use tragedy, illness or acts of nature to teach us", I would have to say that is mostly true, although not totally, because there have been times when God has intervened and created such events - Sodom and Gamorah, and The Flood come to mind.

Also, illnesses can be teachable events. How many people do you suppose rejected God, but then found him in the midst of their sufferings? And could God have intitiated such a thing? Sure He could have.

 

[msortwell]

Does God use calamity to instruct?

“1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway. 2 And know ye this day: for [I speak] not with your children which have not known, and which have not seen the chastisement of the LORD your God, his greatness, his mighty hand . . . 6 And what he did unto Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, the son of Reuben: how the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their households, and their tents, and all the substance that [was] in their possession, in the midst of all Israel: 7 But your eyes have seen all the great acts of the LORD which he did. 8 Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;” (De 11:1-8 AV)

Lesson learned.

God may teach us by the calamity He brings upon some directly. As shown in Job, He instructs by allowing calamity to be brought by others as well.

The quote that you provided is sufficient evidence to merit avoiding such a “church.”

 

[Aibrean]

Have they ever heard of Job? Jonah? Saul?

Everything that happens is the will of God. While he might not be directly involved in all events occurring (step in Satan), he allows it to happen.

 

[TalkJesus]

This statement was in the Statement of Faith for a church hubby and I were thinking about visiting. We decided not to visit the church after reading their Statement of Faith. Not just because of this one, but there were a few that just struck us wrong.

Anyways, just wondering if anyone else has heard of this. This is a really big church in our city. I just don't understand how a Christian can believe this and actually have read the Bible. I can think of several times where God has used illness, tradgedy, and acts of nature to teach lessons...

Just something I've never heard before...

God says " Hebrews 5:8 (New King James Version)
8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.

God also says " take up your cross and follow Me"


T

 

[PrayingWithFire]

God can teach us in the midst of calamity, but He does not bring calamity upon us in order to teach us. He has given us the Holy Spirit for the purpose of teaching us, to guide us into all truth (John 16:13).

 

[JCFantasy23]

Hmmm interesting to say the least. I've never seen that on a statement of faith before, no. Then again I've never picked up a specific churchs statement of faith when attending, wouldn't be a bad idea to do, although I can't remember seeing something like this at the churches I've tried before. I do read denomination websites and their statement of faith, but I know not all churches adhere precisely to this either.

Anyway, to answer your question I do believe that things in life happen for reasons and that YES, we are taught certain things by illness and/or tragedy. Sometimes it's for growth, new outlooks, to get closer (or get to know) God, or as a consequence for sin.

 

[NorrinRadd]

This statement was in the Statement of Faith for a church hubby and I were thinking about visiting. We decided not to visit the church after reading their Statement of Faith. Not just because of this one, but there were a few that just struck us wrong.

Anyways, just wondering if anyone else has heard of this. This is a really big church in our city. I just don't understand how a Christian can believe this and actually have read the Bible. I can think of several times where God has used illness, tradgedy, and acts of nature to teach lessons...

Just something I've never heard before...

That kind of teaching was common in the church I attended from my mid-20s to early-30s. It was a Full Gospel church with "Word-Faith" leanings. However, to the best of my recollection, our "Statement of Faith" did not contain anything that explicit; it was a rather generic "Pentecostal" SoF.

 

[sunlover1]

Does God use calamity to instruct?

“1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway. 2 And know ye this day: for [I speak] not with your children which have not known, and which have not seen the chastisement of the LORD your God, his greatness, his mighty hand . . . 6 And what he did unto Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, the son of Reuben: how the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their households, and their tents, and all the substance that [was] in their possession, in the midst of all Israel: 7 But your eyes have seen all the great acts of the LORD which he did. 8 Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;” (De 11:1-8 AV)

Lesson learned.

God may teach us by the calamity He brings upon some directly. As shown in Job, He instructs by allowing calamity to be brought by others as well.

The quote that you provided is sufficient evidence to merit avoiding such a “church.”

11 “You must love the Lord your God and obey all his requirements, decrees, regulations, and commands.
2 Keep in mind that I am not talking now to your children, who have never experienced the discipline of the Lord your God or seen his greatness and his strong hand and powerful arm.
3 They didn’t see the miraculous signs and wonders he performed in Egypt against Pharaoh and all his land.
4 They didn’t see what the Lord did to the armies of Egypt and to their horses and chariots—how he drowned them in the Red Sea* as they were chasing you. He destroyed them, and they have not recovered to this very day!
5 “Your children didn’t see how the Lord cared for you in the wilderness until you arrived here.
6 They didn’t see what he did to Dathan and Abiram (the sons of Eliab, a descendant of Reuben) when the earth opened its mouth in the Israelite camp and swallowed them, along with their households and tents and every living thing that belonged to them.
7 But you have seen the Lord perform all these mighty deeds with your own eyes!
“Therefore, be careful to obey every command I am giving you today, so you may have strength to go in and take over the land you are about to enter.​

http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=51238638#_ftn2NLT

 

[sunlover1]

God can teach us in the midst of calamity, but He does not bring calamity upon us in order to teach us. He has given us the Holy Spirit for the purpose of teaching us, to guide us into all truth (John 16:13).

Amen.
Sowing and reaping is a great factor in some of the problems we face.
And I don't mean just the obvious.
I can't imagine that my Father would 'bring' calamity upon me anymore
than I'd bring calamity on my kids to 'teach' them.
The only thing that might teach them is that they cannot
depend on me to protect them.
I don't see anything in the name of God that depicts that iirc.
Names of God

 

[SeekerOfTheTruth]

Well actually scripture tells us that God will work all things out for Good to those who are called according to His purpose.

Hi,
I believe that when scripture refers to "work all things out for good" it refers to good in eternity. God works things to direct those who love him to eternal salvation. The "good" there doesn't refer to what we naturally think, i.e. comfort, health, wealth, etc.

Because scripture says:
Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

So God works all things for those who love Him, in order that they might become like Christ. This is the "good" that it refers to.

 

[SeekerOfTheTruth]

"He does not use tragedy, illness or acts of nature to teach us."
-He's not the one who's causing it but He will allow it. If we walk out of His protection He can't control your situation. We grow trough opposition of the enemy.

Actually the Bible teaches the opposite. All plagues, natural disasters, etc. come from God. God is the cause of this.

Amo 3:6 Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the LORD has done it?

God has every right to do this without violating his character because by his standards we all deserve destruction. Many times, God uses affliction to mould and teach his children. Just look at the life of Paul and the apostles. Paul was beaten, stoned, scourged, shipwrecked for 3 days, suffered hunger, cold, was bitten by vipers, etc. etc.

Yet who could deny the love of God on Paul's life? No, Paul was greatly loved I'm sure.

 

[spmedi]

God can do or not do as God pleases. It is clear in many scriptures in the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament, that God disciplined his people to bring them back to him or teach them His way. Why then would it not be possible that God, in whatever form, may do the same for his people under the new covenant.

With that said, you may not locate a church in which you believe everything in its "SoF". I would suggest attending and letting the Holy Spirit guide you. God can work in and through a church regardless of its SoF. I am glad He isn't limiting by our doctrines.

 

[homewardbound]

You and your husband made a good choice to avoid that church. That statement of theirs is partially true (God is for us) but the other part is total nonsense.

God allows us to go through all sorts of storms. Trials and tribulations reveal our faith, strengthen our faith, impart wisdom, and offer us the opportunity to glorify Him even in the midst of suffering. Anyone can smile and say "Praise the Lord" when times are good. Turn the tables, though, and you'll learn not only what you're made of, but what God can do with you.