Is This Real?

[RileyG]

Or I could carry my birth certificate and label myself Asian but even Asians in the USA don't get a lot of love that other races get, maybe because they are successful.

I think there is a lot of perceived hatred against Asians because people are ignorant.

 

[BPPLEE]

A patient has the right to refuse care, where I am, in Massachusetts which is not in the UK.

And receiving care includes being respectful and cooperative. Violence and disrespect will not be tolerated at at least one location where medical care is given, here.

So, in case a patient treats a care worker in a cruel and hateful way, this is a crime and it is refusing to cooperate with the care offered to the patient.

So, the worker has no need to "refuse" to treat the person. The patient is breaking the law plus refusing to cooperate with care.

It would be quite hard to perceive someone is a racist unless he or she is acting and speaking in a cruel and illegal way which is racist.

Of course, any rule can be done the wrong way by wrong people. So, if a care worker refuses to care for someone, this needs to be reviewed.

Patients are rude, disrespectful and sometimes hateful in the hospitals I have worked in and they still have to be treated.
We can put visitors who act that way out but there's nothing we can do to a patient.

 

[Ana the Ist]

A patient has the right to refuse care, where I am, in Massachusetts which is not in the UK.

And receiving care includes being respectful and cooperative. Violence and disrespect will not be tolerated at at least one location where medical care is given, here.

So, in case a patient treats a care worker in a cruel and hateful way, this is a crime and it is refusing to cooperate with the care offered to the patient.

Well, patients can't demand specific care. They can receive care or refuse it....

But words said to nurses or doctors apart from refusing care shouldn't prevent care.

So, the worker has no need to "refuse" to treat the person. The patient is breaking the law plus refusing to cooperate with care.

It would be quite hard to perceive someone is a racist unless he or she is acting and speaking in a cruel and illegal way which is racist.

Of course, any rule can be done the wrong way by wrong people. So, if a care worker refuses to care for someone, this needs to be reviewed.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

And receiving care includes being respectful and cooperative. Violence and disrespect will not be tolerated at at least one location where medical care is given, here.

Seems like those kinds of rules could create some challenges when it comes to treating people with severe mental health issues that include violent outbursts.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think the pandemic started "normalizing" this notion that providers should be able to refuse care if someone doesn't ideologically align with the view of the person making the critique.

I heard a lot of people say things to the effect of "if someone refused the vaccine, and gets sick with covid, they should turn them away at the door", coming from a lot of people who's entire view of the healthcare system is "we should all have to chip in to pay for other people's bad decisions"

That's where lack of consistency erodes credibility.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think the pandemic started "normalizing" this notion that providers should be able to refuse care if someone doesn't ideologically align with the view of the person making the critique.

That's certainly where it gained traction.

I heard a lot of people say things to the effect of "if someone refused the vaccine, and gets sick with covid, they should turn them away at the door", coming from a lot of people who's entire view of the healthcare system is "we should all have to chip in to pay for other people's bad decisions"

Not to mention the "my body, my choice" crowd. Apparently they meant my body...their choice.

That's where lack of consistency erodes credibility.

I've seen three unique problems arise in national Healthcare services that give me pause regarding single payer systems and private healthcare services. I've generally seen private healthcare generate worse outcomes....

In Canada, suicide has become a popular solution for treatable conditions. It's being floated for increasingly mild reasons and the whole thing is rather complicated....nonetheless....it's happening. In the UK, immigration pressure has decreased the value of services and I strongly suspect this is partially due to that. In S Korea....basically all new doctors went on strike. Hours too long, pay too small, no longer worth the stress. What exactly do you do when an entire generation of doctors sits out being doctors?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That's certainly where it gained traction.

Not to mention the "my body, my choice" crowd. Apparently they meant my body...their choice.

I've seen three unique problems arise in national Healthcare services that give me pause regarding single payer systems and private healthcare services. I've generally seen private healthcare generate worse outcomes....

In Canada, suicide has become a popular solution for treatable conditions. It's being floated for increasingly mild reasons and the whole thing is rather complicated....nonetheless....it's happening. In the UK, immigration pressure has decreased the value of services and I strongly suspect this is partially due to that. In S Korea....basically all new doctors went on strike. Hours too long, pay too small, no longer worth the stress. What exactly do you do when an entire generation of doctors sits out being doctors?

I don't think this situation is a strike against single-payer healthcare.

At the end of the day, the single-payer system would benefit a larger number of people. Just depends on what you want out of the healthcare system.

If you want the latest and greatest for specialized care, the US wins, if you want the most affordable care for the more common ailments and not having someone having to take a 2nd mortgage on their home because they needed radiation therapy, then single payer wins.

I've likened it to if someone asked the question "what's the best vehicle?"

It depends what you want out of a vehicle, if you want something that goes 0-60 really quick vs. something that can pull a motorhome, my recommendation is going to be different lol.


For what it's worth, the "Canada recommending suicide" thing was something that was a "telemarketing/callcenter software problem" that got rebranded as a "flaw in their healthcare system problem" by opportunists looking to run-down government-ran health care. (if you're referring to that highly publicized call that took place where a Canadian veteran had the call center employee pitching suicide because they couldn't get up the stairs in their house)

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't think this situation is a strike against single-payer healthcare.

At the end of the day, the single-payer system would benefit a larger number of people. Just depends on what you want out of the healthcare system.

I just never considered some of the rather significant issues that could be involved.

The S Korea Dr strike was serious....possibly ending their entire system.

If you want the latest and greatest for specialized care, the US wins, if you want the most affordable care for the more common ailments and not having someone having to take a 2nd mortgage on their home because they needed radiation therapy, then single payer wins.

I've likened it to if someone asked the question "what's the best vehicle?"

It depends what you want out of a vehicle, if you want something that goes 0-60 really quick vs. something that can pull a motorhome, my recommendation is going to be different lol.


For what it's worth, the "Canada recommending suicide" thing was something that was a "telemarketing/callcenter software problem" that got rebranded as a "flaw in their healthcare system problem" by opportunists looking to run-down government-ran health care.

I heard it was caused by something else entirely....can't remember what sort of activists it was though. Animal rights maybe? I'd have to look.

(if you're referring to that highly publicized call that took place where a Canadian veteran had the call center employee pitching suicide because they couldn't get up the stairs in their house)

It was a number of cases isolated....but a general spike aggregated.

 

[com7fy8]

Seems like those kinds of rules could create some challenges when it comes to treating people with severe mental health issues that include violent outbursts.

I have known patients to be held physically and put in an isolation room. And ones have gotten tranquilizer shots.

But in a regular hospital they might call security and try to talk the person down, I suppose.

 

[Whyayeman]

'Is this real?'

No.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

'Is this real?'

No.

Refusal to treat | Advice guides | Royal College of Nursing

Advice guide for RCN members on withdrawing care, conscientious objection, competency concerns and patients who refuse your care.

www.rcn.org.uk

Actually what the article reported does appear to be real.

If you use the Wayback machine to pull an earlier copy of this web URL, it would appear they did add racism as one of the situations that can justify a "refusal to treat" or "withdraw of care"

 

[Whyayeman]

Refusal to treat | Advice guides | Royal College of Nursing

Advice guide for RCN members on withdrawing care, conscientious objection, competency concerns and patients who refuse your care.

www.rcn.org.uk

Actually what the article reported does appear to be real. If you use the Wayback machine to pull an earlier copy of this web URL, it would appear they did add racism as one of the situations that can justify a "refusal to treat" or "withdraw of care"

I should have linked the the thread above, about tranquilisers and isolation rooms.

I understand what the Royal College of Nursing is saying well enough. The context is that in overcrowded accident and emergency departments there have been incidences of violence when drunken rowdies have made trouble by assaulting staff. It is shaming to see notices warning the public that action will be taken if staff are abused.

Their advice is just that - supportive of nursing staff in extreme circumstances.

 

[BPPLEE]

I have known patients to be held physically and put in an isolation room. And ones have gotten tranquilizer shots.

But in a regular hospital they might call security and try to talk the person down, I suppose.

The hospital I used to work at had no rooms with a lock on them so if a psych patient was a problem we had to guard them.
It wasn't a psych facility so they had to find somewhere to send the psych patients. Sometimes they would be there over a week waiting to get a bed at a psych facility.
The hospital I work at now has rooms that you can lock someone in. We have cameras in them and they have to be monitored by medical staff. We also own a psych facility a few blocks away and we transport the psych patients there.
It's a much better situation.