Is This Pastor A Christian?

[Matthan]

In my many travels over and around the Internet I came across a pastor who wrote something I consider to be wrong. I am now looking for your thoughts on just how wrong this is, or is it wrong at all.

This pastor wrote,

"Through the shedding of His own blood, Jesus Christ constantly 'enters into God's sanctuary thus obtaining eternal redemption'." (cf. Heb 9:12)

Well, that is not how Hebrews 9:12 reads in Scripture. Here is the verse as it appears in the KJV:

"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

(I would appreciate it if each of you checks out her or his own Bible to insure I quoted Hebrews correctly.)

Does anyone think these small changes matter? If so, how much do they matter? And, is this the writing of a true Christian?

Matthan <J><

 

[ZiSunka]

Yes, I have a problem with the words, "constantly" and "obtaining."

He entered and obtained, the work is done and there is no more to do. By using the words "constantly" and "obtaining," this pastor is saying Christ's work is never complete and he has never completely obtained.

Christ's death was once and for all. It is not an ongoing thing or something that needs to be periodically refreshed or updated.

As for whether or not this pastor is a Christian, I think he could be a Christian, but he's obviously more than a little mixed up about how the words he is using change the meaning of what he says.

 

[abednego]

In my many travels over and around the Internet I came across a pastor who wrote something I consider to be wrong. I am now looking for your thoughts on just how wrong this is, or is it wrong at all.

This pastor wrote,

Well, that is not how Hebrews 9:12 reads in Scripture. Here is the verse as it appears in the KJV:

[/b]

(I would appreciate it if each of you checks out her or his own Bible to insure I quoted Hebrews correctly.)

Does anyone think these small changes matter? If so, how much do they matter? And, is this the writing of a true Christian?

Matthan <J><

NOONE can look into another mans or womens heart and tell if they truely saved or weather they are going to hell or heaven ... but it does say that we would know them by the fruit they bear. Maybe he just made a mistake did you ask him about or correct him? Remember we're only human. My pastor after the preaching is done says "is there questions or thought or something about the preaching feel at will." But anyways i dont think someone could say was weather he is or not just by that info.

 

[SteveR2021]

Is This Pastor A Christian?

I have no idea. I suppose only God knows.

(I would appreciate it if each of you checks out her or his own Bible to insure I quoted Hebrews correctly.)

Hebrews makes it very clear that this was a one time event...in ever translation that i have read. I'm not good enough with my Greek to verify it but I think we can be sure that it is referring to a one time event.

Does anyone think these small changes matter? If so, how much do they matter?

I have no idea what the context was...but I do know that this kind of concept (spoken by the pastor) comes up when we talk about God's timelessness. Both Calvinists and Armenians believe in God's timelessness...the question that people face is how that is played out. If God is timeless all of time is ever present before Him. In our perspective time is linear...one second ago is gone. However, if i were timeless that second wouldn't be gone - it would still be there.

So, what happened yesterday is still present before God...what happened 2000 years ago is still present before God. I have heard this construed then to say that while time exists (until the return of Christ presumably) all of these events are constantly happening before God...and in a sense God is constantly participating in all of time and so while to us the event in Hebrews is past - it is still happening before God.

Now I think this is a little wierd but that's what i've been told...whether you and i believe it is another matter but it may be where this pastor is coming from.

He could also be referring to Christ's constant intercession before God on our behalf, but I think that is a misreading of the text.

If so, how much do they matter

probably not very much.

And, is this the writing of a true Christian?

correct doctrine does not equal a Christian...i'm sure none of us have perfectly sound theology but then I don't think God's going to one day point the finger at us and say: "You were wrong about me!" I think He'll be more concerned with how we lived our lives - how well we knew Him.

Doctrine is important but its not everything.

 

[JustinWindsor]

The Lamb's own reward was the redemption of His people. As our High Priest He made the final sacrifice for all time FOR US...His people. He didn't have to be redeemed. He is God. The Hebrews reference is showing us the Son's role in the New Covenant regarding His priesthood. As we read through the letter to the Hebrews we find that there is nothing ambiguous about this.

The pastor may be in error in this point, but that certainly wouldn't be enough to say he isn't saved. We must be on guard that we don't find ourselves with a judgmental spirit.

May God Bless

 

[P_G]

I would hesitate to call this pastor not Christian and would like to think that he misquoted the Bible. What you have posted here is taken out of context of what he was speaking on so it is hard to tell if this is just a slip on a memory verse (something I am all too guilty of) or if he had an agenda and purpously misquoted to make his point.

No translation that I can find makes this into anything other than once and done.

PG

 

[22 Degree Halo]

It's wrong but that doesn't make him "not a Christian."