Is this for real?

OldWiseGuy said:

Lying for example. How would AI solve this problem?

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Myeah, I was thinking more along the lines of actual problems like famines, desease, overpopulation, overconsumption etc.

In any case, how does the bible "solve" that problem?
Because I catch fundamentalists lying every other day on here. The bible doesn't seem to solve this at all.

OldWiseGuy said:

Then why are you defending it as a 'problem solver'?

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Because solving problems requires knowledge.

OldWiseGuy said:

These devices are handy but hardly solve our real problems; murder, lying, theft

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2000 years of religion didn't seem to have solved that either.
So what's your point?

However I did just use my word processor and printer to issue warnings to some of our graduate student tenants (the best and brightest hope for the future) that they cannot park free in the visitors parking lot (this is theft), or allow their friends to park there all day while they go to their classes (ostensibly to learn how to make the world a better place). This is just as bad as theft, telling another to take something that doesn't belong to them. Got an "AI" for that?

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See, you're a theist and read the bible. But that also isn't stopping you from being dishonest about what I said concerning AI's. I mentioned specifically that AI could solve some problems for us and that it would depend on the subject matter.

Now here you are, dishonestly pretending that I insinuated that AI would solve any and all problems.

So what's that about?

Justatruthseeker said:

Why by termination

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You really shouldn't be commenting on this, considering how frequently you are caught lying on this forum.

DogmaHunter said:

Myeah, I was thinking more along the lines of actual problems like famines, desease, overpopulation, overconsumption etc.

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All those problems have a spiritual component at the root.

OldWiseGuy said:

All those problems have a spiritual component at the root.

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Really?

What's the "spiritual" component of leprosi? Cancer? Polio? Measles? Smallpox? A common cold?
What's the "spiritual" component of famines as a result of severe drought and otherwise failing crops?
What's the "spiritual" component of earthquakes destroying entire towns and the resulting tsunami killing thousands more?

Are you one of those people who thinks Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for allowing gay marriage, or something else you find displeasing?


EDIT: you forgot to both quote AND answer the part where I ask you how the bible supposedly solves such issues in ways that are more succesfull then anything science could accomplish.

DogmaHunter said:

2000 years of religion didn't seem to have solved that either.
So what's your point?

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Has science solved those problems? If not why not?

DogmaHunter said:

See, you're a theist and read the bible. But that also isn't stopping you from being dishonest about what I said concerning AI's. I mentioned specifically that AI could solve some problems for us and that it would depend on the subject matter.

Now here you are, dishonestly pretending that I insinuated that AI would solve any and all problems.

So what's that about?

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It was a sarcastic question, not an insinuation, honestly.

OldWiseGuy said:

Has science solved those problems? If not why not?

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It seems irrelevant since your claim was that the bible could solve issues that science couldn't.
You gave some examples of such problems, yet 2000 years of religion didn't solve that at all.

The point here is for you to come up with biblical solutions to problems where science failed.
ie, the point here is for you to support your claims with actual evidence.

DogmaHunter said:

It seems irrelevant since your claim was that the bible could solve issues that science couldn't.
You gave some examples of such problems, yet 2000 years of religion didn't solve that at all.

The point here is for you to come up with biblical solutions to problems where science failed.
ie, the point here is for you to support your claims with actual evidence.

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The bible; Godly knowledge; leads us to do the things that we ought to be doing. This is the moral component often missing that makes problem solving difficult. You cited cancer, among other illnesses. The question is, can cancer be reduced by simple lifestyle changes, mainly diet? Doctors seem to think so. Same with heart disease.

So why don't people change to a more healthful diet? If you know that simple changes are beneficial why not change. This is not a scientific question, but a moral one.

Your questions are leading down a rabbit hole. But consider this. Many problems suffer from lack of funding, caused by the funding of other problems that take precedence......like crime for example. Do you see the greater moral component? Add to that that the criminal justice system is a mess and you have problem upon problem, caused by sinful human nature. Even the diseases you mentioned have a moral component.

Consider the spread of ebola, through the ritual touching of the infected person by others, who refuse to comply with the clear instructions of science not to do so. Another moral component.

Peel back the layers of any problem and you'll find the morally weak and sinful nature of man. Science doesn't have a chance against that.

A final word about disease. Isn't it curious that as we find cures for one disease another quickly takes it's place? We are never free of disease, despite our best efforts.

DogmaHunter said:

It seems irrelevant since your claim was that the bible could solve issues that science couldn't.
You gave some examples of such problems, yet 2000 years of religion didn't solve that at all.

The point here is for you to come up with biblical solutions to problems where science failed.
ie, the point here is for you to support your claims with actual evidence.

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2000 years of religion is what brought us out of the stone age (your belief) and instituted every single scientific advancement we have...... Scientists that looked for order since a God of order created the universe...... Since then only improvements on their discoveries have been made.....

You can't even bring yourself to give recognition where it is due.....

DogmaHunter said:

What's the "spiritual" component of earthquakes destroying entire towns and the resulting tsunami killing thousands more?

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The rebellion of Lucifer and the subsequent destruction on the earth resulting in 'plate tectonics'; fractured pieces of earth's crust banging into each other. Of course God will put a stop to this when people stop worshipping Lucifer. So even that is a moral issue.

OldWiseGuy said:

The bible; Godly knowledge; leads us to do the things that we ought to be doing

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I disagree. I think that if we would organize society according to biblical rules, it would resemble current islamic theocracies more then it would free western secular democracies. There's quite a few "oughts" in that book that I would heavily oppose. And to be honest, I think you'ld oppose some of them as well.

This is the moral component often missing that makes problem solving difficult. You cited cancer, among other illnesses. The question is, can cancer be reduced by simple lifestyle changes, mainly diet? Doctors seem to think so. Same with heart disease.

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Some cancers can, others can't. Lots of cancers are also caused by human activity, regardless of life styles. Take asbest... Used to be a common construction material. It causes cancer. Once that was discovered (through scientific means), did regulation come to limit or even forbid using it.

So how did the bible suggest to deal with this problem? How come bible reading folks didn't warn people of the dangers of asbest before science discovered it?

You say "doctors seem to think so". Doctors base there findings on medical science - not on the bible, you realise that right?

Is the absurdity of your claim starting to sink in yet?

So why don't people change to a more healthful diet? If you know that simple changes are beneficial why not change. This is not a scientific question, but a moral one.

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So your claim is that without the bible, people have no reason to try being and staying healthy?

Your questions are leading down a rabbit hole.

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It seems to me that you are the one trapped in a hole.

But consider this. Many problems suffer from lack of funding, caused by the funding of other problems that take precedence......like crime for example. Do you see the greater moral component? Add to that that the criminal justice system is a mess and you have problem upon problem, caused by sinful human nature. Even the diseases you mentioned have a moral component.

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That's a whole bunch of claims. And then there's the implicit claim that all this is because people neglect the bible.

I say it's a combination of factors - none of which have anything to do with the bible.
Factors like bad education, discrimination, poverty, bad health care, bad luck, mental problems, ... and at the back of the line just bad people who'll engage in crime no matter how good they have it or not.
Some of these factors can be addressed, some can't. You can't address bad luck, for example. But you an provide safety nets for people that encounter it.

None of this requires a bible.
Lots of it will be done, in spite of the bible though.

Consider the spread of ebola, through the ritual touching of the infected person by others, who refuse to comply with the clear instructions of science not to do so. Another moral component.

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Of science, ey?

Peel back the layers of any problem and you'll find the morally weak and sinful nature of man. Science doesn't have a chance against that.

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So, really, you're just making the moral argument here, with your claims about "solutions to problems". Essentially, your claim is that without the bible, there is no morality.

That's obvious nonsense.
I don't require a biblical motivation to act morally. And I certainly don't need it to instruct me on what is and isn't moral, nore do I even agree that what it instructs is actually moral.

A final word about disease. Isn't it curious that as we find cures for one disease another quickly takes it's place?

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Not if you understand how evolution works. ;-)

We are never free of disease, despite our best efforts.

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Sure. What's your point?

OldWiseGuy said:

The rebellion of Lucifer and the subsequent destruction on the earth resulting in 'plate tectonics'; fractured pieces of earth's crust banging into each other. Of course God will put a stop to this when people stop worshipping Lucifer. So even that is a moral issue.

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Is that like a bad joke, or do you really believe that?

DogmaHunter said:

Is that like a bad joke, or do you really believe that?

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Of course he doesn't, he's just goading us.

.

If honor killings are moral, then I guess I’m “immoral,” then.

DogmaHunter said:

So, really, you're just making the moral argument here, with your claims about "solutions to problems". Essentially, your claim is that without the bible, there is no morality.

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Man and God disagree what morality is. Man believes that anything he thinks is right......is right i.e. "Every man doing what is right.....in his own eyes."

Many want to be moral but don't know how. The bible is the best source of that knowledge.

DogmaHunter said:

Is that like a bad joke, or do you really believe that?

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I believe.

Herman Hedning said:

Of course he doesn't, he's just goading us.

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Goading is against forum rules.

OldWiseGuy said:

Man and God disagree what morality is.

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I think you mean "21st century man disagrees with book written in the bronze age on what morality is"

Man believes that anything he thinks is right......is right i.e. "Every man doing what is right.....in his own eyes."

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Why would you do otherwise?
You would engage in what you consider despicable behaviour, just because you believe that your perceived authority tells you it's okay?