Is this for real?

DogmaHunter · Oct 17, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
I'm living proof; God's way works.

okay.

I guess that makes Brahim from accross the street "living proof" of allah, then.

DogmaHunter · Oct 17, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Actually you seem to contradict everything I claim.

Sure, since I don't agree with any of your claims.

However, in this case, YOU were the one that said that the bible can "solve all problems".
Yet, argueably there is no western country that gives more importance to the bible then the US.

And yet, as per your own claim, the US is on the verge of collapse or something.

So.... yeah.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 17, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
Sure, since I don't agree with any of your claims.

However, in this case, YOU were the one that said that the bible can "solve all problems".
Yet, argueably there is no western country that gives more importance to the bible then the US.

And yet, as per your own claim, the US is on the verge of collapse or something.

So.... yeah.

You can lead a horse to water................but you can't make him actually read the bible.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 17, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
okay.

I guess that makes Brahim from accross the street "living proof" of allah, then.

If it works, it works. What more to say.

HitchSlap · Oct 17, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
You can lead a horse to water................but you can't make him actually read the bible.

Well, that’s the problem, I’ve actually read the bible. Worse yet, I used to believe it.

HitchSlap · Oct 17, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
If it works, it works. What more to say.

And you don’t see a problem with that?

OldWiseGuy · Oct 17, 2018

HitchSlap said:
Well, that’s the problem, I’ve actually read the bible. Worse yet, I used to believe it.

But did you understand it?

OldWiseGuy · Oct 17, 2018

HitchSlap said:
And you don’t see a problem with that?

With something that works?

HitchSlap · Oct 18, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
But did you understand it?

Of course. It’s the reason I’m atheist.

HitchSlap · Oct 18, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
With something that works?

Even when it’s wrong?

tas8831 · Oct 22, 2018

Justatruthseeker said:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dogs-99-percent-wolf/

So we can rule out your claim that our supposed relations millions of years ago are closer to us than we are to ourselves......

As is the norm, your link does not in any way support your interpretation of it.

tas8831 · Oct 22, 2018

Justatruthseeker said:
Similarity is based upon BLAST.

No, similarity is based upon the extent of sequence matches, and BLAST is but one way to assess this.
How was genome similarity assessed prior to the origin of BLAST? The initial version of BLAST came out in 1990. There were assessments of similarity before that (and after that) which did not use BLAST, such as DNA-DNA hybridization or direct sequence comparisons of however much sequence data you have. I did my first alignments and comparisons by eye using the XESEE sequence alignment and analysis program (DOS-based, all done by hand).

I have published 9 papers/chapters on this general subject, to include 5 that specifically looked at human/chimp phylogeny, and did not once use BLAST, and while the % similarity was not the focus of any of those papers, the % similarity does show up in the outputs of the programs I used to analyze the sequence data as a 'byproduct.'
So please stop misrepresenting the science.

What is done is that the genome is cut into bits. then any part found matching with any other part is considered similarity, regardless if they are not even on the same portion of the genome and may have completely different functions.

LOL!

Maybe that is how TOMKINS did it. There are rationales for doing that, but that is not required to assess similarity.

And while there will generally be 'similarity' via homology and the like on more than 1 chromosome, this will not matter if the 'pieces' used are large enough. A few years ago, after the original hyperbolic ENCODE papers came out, I searched an artificial chromosome of ~100 million bps in length for a particular group of known binding sites and got hundreds of thousands of hits. The nature of DNA all but guarantees that short bits of sequence will show up all over the place by chance alone.
Again, Tomkins had a reason for using the short bits he did, but do not assume that legitimate researchers do the same things for the same reasons.

Now when comparing human genomes this is never done, one simply compares the two as they are for relatedness. that they are required to cut up the genome of chimps and humans and match any portion to any portion shows the pseudo-scientific aspect of their results.

So, I guess you don’t know how any of this really works.

Here is a hint – again, I did DNA sequence comparisons WITHOUT using BLAST. None of the people I worked with at the time used BLAST for sequence comparisons (we used BLAST for other reasons, such as to search the databases for sequence data that we could incorporate into our matrices, but NOT for doing the actual analyses!).

I have done sequence analyses with humans and non-humans in the same analysis – and no BLAST was used, no ‘cutting’ things up.

And BLAST was not used to do 'similarity' assessments in the chimp genome paper.

But I do find your uninformed rhetoric interesting.

For example –

“…that they are required to cut up the genome of chimps and humans and match any portion to any portion…”

If this were the case, then how can it be that we can compare human chromosome 2 with chimp chromosomes 2a and b? Have you ever heard of chromosomal banding? You can compare entire chromosomes based on their staining characteristics – no cutting up or use of BLAST needed.

Also, keep in mind that BLAST is not just one program - there are several 'sub' or related programs with similar names (e.g., BLASTn, BLAT, BLASTZ) that perform different functions. The chimp genome paper, for example, used BLASTZ for aligning the human and chimp sequences - but these were not 'cut up' pieces ala Tomkins, these were entire sequences (entire chromosomes, for example).

So, you should read up on these sorts of things BEFORE making your usual over-the-top proclamations.

Don't even buy into their fakery...... You can't compare a sequence with another in a different place on the genome which may have completely different functions and then claim similarity.... FAKERY.........

See above.

Plus, if the sequences are quite similar over a long span, and the span includes coding sequence, then yeah, they probably do have similar functions.

Justatruthseeker · Oct 22, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
Sure, since I don't agree with any of your claims.

However, in this case, YOU were the one that said that the bible can "solve all problems".
Yet, argueably there is no western country that gives more importance to the bible then the US.

And yet, as per your own claim, the US is on the verge of collapse or something.

So.... yeah.

Shows how much people actually follow what the Bible teaches......

What was founded on those principles no longer lives by those principles......

It’s what happens when wolves in sheep’s clothing takes over the flock.....

America won’t collapse as long as oil is bought in US dollars. It’s what has allowed us to give all you other countries an imbalance in tariffs which Trump is setting right. You all might collapse without the US funding your trade though....

Probably why they are all crying over fair trade....

tas8831 · Oct 23, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
There are many "well-supported" beliefs that just aren't true.

Examples?

The most egregious lie currently is that you have to "go to college" (whatever that means) in order to succeed.

Is that a lie or a belief?
It is true that a person with a college degree tends to earn more than those that do not. It is also true that there are some with no post-secondary education that are paid well. Does that negate the statistics re: college graduates?
Are you sure about your high IQ claims?

tas8831 · Oct 23, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
And yet, the US is arguably the most christian nation in the west.

This seems to contradict just about everything you've been claiming here.

Maybe the real correlation is...

tas8831 · Oct 23, 2018

Justatruthseeker said:
Shows how much people actually follow what the Bible teaches......

What was founded on those principles no longer lives by those principles......

Founded on those principles...

Don't want to go too far off topic, but can you name one thing in the Constitution that is premised on biblical principles? Is there something in the Constitution about offering up your daughters to protect strangers, or bashing the heads of the children of infidels on rocks and cutting up pregnant women that I am not aware of?

OldWiseGuy · Oct 23, 2018

tas8831 said:
Examples?

Is that a lie or a belief?

I'm just repeating it. Ask the talking heads and politicians who are always saying it (they also intimate that if one doesn't 'send' their kids to college they have failed).

OldWiseGuy · Oct 23, 2018

tas8831 said:
It is true that a person with a college degree tends to earn more than those that do not. It is also true that there are some with no post-secondary education that are paid well. Does that negate the statistics re: college graduates?

They must not make as much as is said as so many need financial aid from those who don't go to college.

I'm not knocking college, I'm knocking the way it's run.
'

tas8831 said:
Are you sure about your high IQ claims?

I don't write the tests, I just take them.

tas8831 · Oct 23, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
I'm just repeating it.

But you were talking about 'beliefs' and then provided that as a 'lie.'

tas8831 · Oct 23, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
They must not make as much as is said as so many need financial aid from those who don't go to college.

But one needs financial aide while IN college, not after.
Curious - what prevented you from writing something like "you are right about the statistics, I am just angry and bitter."?

I'm not knocking college, I'm knocking the way it's run.

Unfortunately, they are being run more and more like businesses, and with the Fox in the education Henhouse these days...
A few years ago, the dean of the business school temporarily took over as provost. He tried to do this big workload assessment, to try to trim programs that were not 'pulling their weight' - much like, I suppose, a business leader would do when taking over a business. Wanted to know faculty workloads, faculty-student ratios, cost-benefit analyses for each program. We discovered that, most ironically, the business school and some of the engineering programs were huge money pits with small enrollments (these were the chem engineering and electrical engineering programs - our mechanical, civil, and computer engineering programs have always had huge enrollments) and too many faculty. The acting provost buried the report, and decided not to cut any programs.

So yes, we agree on 1 thing

I don't write the tests, I just take them.

And standardized tests are poor ways to measure such things, as is clear.

Is this for real?

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