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Is this abusive therapy?

Waiting for the Verdict

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Here is what biblical counselors suggest we do for the following mental disorders. Do you believe these treatments are ethical? Effective? This is taken out of the Christian's Guide to Psychological Terms.

Anorexia: "The anorexic's behavior is sin. She is worshipping thinness and making her appearance and weight an idol. She is focused on self rather than on God. With anorexics, look for self-pity, blame-shifting, and dishonesty . . . Her thoughts must be renwed through God's word. She must recognize her sins and repent." (10)

Asperger's: "Failure to establish mutually supportive interpresonal relationships with other believers is sin even if an individual has been diagnosed with Asberger's disorder."

Body Dysmorphic Disorder: "BDD is idolatry. Preocuppation with self, resulting in neglect of responsiblities is sin because it arises from a heart that honors self above God (27)

Borderline: "This indiviidual has developed a sinful manner of life that is self seeking. He is totall self-abosrbed . . . The core heart issue is pride. He believes that everyone must organize their entire lives around his happiness. (28)

Bulimia: "The bulimic must repent, confess her sin, and study the Scriptures to understand how she can learn to fear God, not man." (31)

DepressionL "The symptoms of depression are indicative of wrong thinking and\or spiritual problems . . . Depression is a sin if we allow the feelings to control our life instead of God." (56)

OCD: "Obsessive compulsive beahvior is a manifestation of ungodly fear .. . The counselee has become so consumed with his fear that his whole life is foucsed on preventing it. The counselor needs to help the counselle identify the sins resulting from his unblical response to fear. He may be incosniderate of others. . . He is being deceptive. The counselee will overcome his fear as he repents." (114)

Schizophrenia (164): "Schizophrenia is an exaggerated resposne to fear, guilt, and hopelessness. He has unmitigated guilt and much to fear. For this reason a schizoprehnic should be considered an unbeliever until proven otherwise (even if he has a history of effective Christian ministry)."

Tourette's (202): "The descrpition of the emotional urge that pressures the person to perform the tic is identical to the urges associated with enslaving habits (porn, drunkenness, etc.) Since no brain abnormality can be identified in Tourette's patients, the biblical principles for overcoming enslaving sins should be applied . . . The tic is only a superficial problem. The primary issue is the urge that prompts it. The individual has become enslaved. He is willing to do whatever it takes (i.e. the tic), even if it is sinful, to gain fleeting relief from the urge. . . What psychology attributes to a faulty inhibitory mechanism in the brain, the Bible calls a seared conscience and a hardened heart. The only real hope for a hardened heart is repentance, regeneration, and transformation by the Holy Spirit."

Are these treatments ethical? Therepauetic? Should they be illegal (I'm not saying neccessarily yes or no)?
 
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Bombila

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I imagine they'd certainly be ineffective. I would hope no one suffering from the listed problems would be discouraged from getting appropriate therapy. I wonder if any of the people involved in making this stuff up have ever dealt with the conditions listed, because if they have, they would have to be pretty self righteous and callous to believe Asperger's or Schizophrenia, for examples, are self inflicted.
 
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chipmunk

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I think it is a scary book if this is how they view such disorders. I would never suggest it to anyone for reading. I don't think they are particularly helpful or therapeutic. Ethical? No. Definitely not. Do I think it should be illegal? Part of me wants to say yes because of knowing the harm it can do. The other part says no, people should be free to make their own decisions even if I do think they are bad ones.

 
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Ramona

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Borderline: "This indiviidual has developed a sinful manner of life that is self seeking. He is totall self-abosrbed . . . The core heart issue is pride. He believes that everyone must organize their entire lives around his happiness. (28)

Lord have mercy
Christ have mercy
Lord have mercy. :prayer:

I almost cried out when I read that. What are they doing to their mentally ill brothers and sisters? I don't think it should be illegal, but it's pseudoscience and it needs to be exposed for the trash that it is.

Is anyone actively working against the nouthetics "counselors," or is this too obscure for the mainstream?
 
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Waiting for the Verdict

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Lord have mercy
Christ have mercy
Lord have mercy. :prayer:

I almost cried out when I read that. What are they doing to their mentally ill brothers and sisters? I don't think it should be illegal, but it's pseudoscience and it needs to be exposed for the trash that it is.

Is anyone actively working against the nouthetics "counselors," or is this too obscure for the mainstream?

Only a few scattered Christian psychologists are working against nouthetcists right now. Unfortunately, I've read that this book is being used as a nursing textbook in at least one Christian college (and I suspect more than that). The book's introduction was written by Wayne Mack, an influential biblical counselor who has connections within many Calvinist - and some fundie - universities.
 
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Waiting for the Verdict

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I think it is a scary book if this is how they view such disorders. I would never suggest it to anyone for reading. I don't think they are particularly helpful or therapeutic. Ethical? No. Definitely not. Do I think it should be illegal? Part of me wants to say yes because of knowing the harm it can do. The other part says no, people should be free to make their own decisions even if I do think they are bad ones.
Yea, I tend to say it should be legal too. Where the question becomes murky is when counselors start suggesting that people go off their meds - which fortunately, only the most extreme biblical counselors would do. However, biblical counselors do lobby their patients to abandon traditional psychotherapy as well, something that I doubt they are qualified to do. But the whole thing is murky, because they are really offering psychological\psychiatric services under the guise of religion.
 
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Waiting for the Verdict

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I imagine they'd certainly be ineffective. I would hope no one suffering from the listed problems would be discouraged from getting appropriate therapy. I wonder if any of the people involved in making this stuff up have ever dealt with the conditions listed, because if they have, they would have to be pretty self righteous and callous to believe Asperger's or Schizophrenia, for examples, are self inflicted.
Unfortunately, the authors of this book are counseling various people as we speak. My old church used to persecute one mother of an Asperger's child, telling her that her children ". . .misbehaved because of bad parenting."
 
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.Sabre.

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It's not ethical. I'm sorry, but I think that counsellors should have proper training, not just be told what to say by religious extremists. So I think what these people are doing should not be legal as they are unqualified.
 
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Mrs.Sidhe

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I cried when I read the schizophrenic and depressed portion of that.... :cry: :(

I think its highly abusive and wrong...not ethical in the least.

People need help (meds & therapy for example)...not a crazed "preacher" or whatever telling them what is what..
 
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Waiting for the Verdict

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It's not ethical. I'm sorry, but I think that counsellors should have proper training, not just be told what to say by religious extremists. So I think what these people are doing should not be legal as they are unqualified.
Don't be sorry. I agree with you, I just don't see constitutionally how we could make it illegal, at least in the states (things might be different in other countries, like Australia and Britian).
 
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Waiting for the Verdict

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I cried when I read the schizophrenic and depressed portion of that.... :cry: :(

I think its highly abusive and wrong...not ethical in the least.

People need help (meds & therapy for example)...not a crazed "preacher" or whatever telling them what is what..

Yea, it brought back a lot of bad memories for me, of people telling me this stuff.

The OCD and Tourette's stuff hurt a lot too. I can understand how someone could think my OCD is the result of sin, but Tourette's . . .
 
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.Sabre.

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We don't have a First Amendment to worry about here. So, if something like this happened in Britain, Parliament could be lobbied to change the law on health and social care(which includes counselling). As far as I know, counsellors have to do courses in Health and Social Care to qualify.
 
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Ramona

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Yea, it brought back a lot of bad memories for me, of people telling me this stuff.

The OCD and Tourette's stuff hurt a lot too. I can understand how someone could think my OCD is the result of sin, but Tourette's . . .

I have entirely too many of the "sins" you've quoted in your OP on my hands. I must have been conceived in the fiery pits of Hell by this lawgick...:sigh:
 
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Waiting for the Verdict

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We don't have a First Amendment to worry about here. So, if something like this happened in Britain, Parliament could be lobbied to change the law on health and social care(which includes counselling). As far as I know, counsellors have to do courses in Health and Social Care to qualify.
Yea, in this case I am actually thankful Britian does not have the 1st amendment. Though, to be honest, I know of British biblical counselors, like the following

http://www.mbowden.surf3.net/schizoweb.htm

This guy's actually one of the worst one's I've seen. I hope no one actually buys his stuff, except to tear it apart.
 
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Waiting for the Verdict

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I have entirely too many of the "sins" you've quoted in your OP on my hands. I must have been conceived in the fiery pits of Hell by this lawgick...:sigh:
Same here, bud. I love how they question the salvation of all schizophrenics. So loving and compassionate.
 
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Ramona

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Amen and Hallelujah, Goodchild.

4RL? I think someone may need to paint with a broader brush!!

Although, looking back, I think all of my psychiatrists/therapists have been mostly atheists, but my two current ones are a non-theist Buddhist and an agnostic Pantheist.
 
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chaz345

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Here is what biblical counselors suggest we do for the following mental disorders. Do you believe these treatments are ethical? Effective? This is taken out of the Christian's Guide to Psychological Terms.

Anorexia: "The anorexic's behavior is sin. She is worshipping thinness and making her appearance and weight an idol. She is focused on self rather than on God. With anorexics, look for self-pity, blame-shifting, and dishonesty . . . Her thoughts must be renwed through God's word. She must recognize her sins and repent." (10)

Asperger's: "Failure to establish mutually supportive interpresonal relationships with other believers is sin even if an individual has been diagnosed with Asberger's disorder."

Body Dysmorphic Disorder: "BDD is idolatry. Preocuppation with self, resulting in neglect of responsiblities is sin because it arises from a heart that honors self above God (27)

Borderline: "This indiviidual has developed a sinful manner of life that is self seeking. He is totall self-abosrbed . . . The core heart issue is pride. He believes that everyone must organize their entire lives around his happiness. (28)

Bulimia: "The bulimic must repent, confess her sin, and study the Scriptures to understand how she can learn to fear God, not man." (31)

DepressionL "The symptoms of depression are indicative of wrong thinking and\or spiritual problems . . . Depression is a sin if we allow the feelings to control our life instead of God." (56)

OCD: "Obsessive compulsive beahvior is a manifestation of ungodly fear .. . The counselee has become so consumed with his fear that his whole life is foucsed on preventing it. The counselor needs to help the counselle identify the sins resulting from his unblical response to fear. He may be incosniderate of others. . . He is being deceptive. The counselee will overcome his fear as he repents." (114)

Schizophrenia (164): "Schizophrenia is an exaggerated resposne to fear, guilt, and hopelessness. He has unmitigated guilt and much to fear. For this reason a schizoprehnic should be considered an unbeliever until proven otherwise (even if he has a history of effective Christian ministry)."

Tourette's (202): "The descrpition of the emotional urge that pressures the person to perform the tic is identical to the urges associated with enslaving habits (porn, drunkenness, etc.) Since no brain abnormality can be identified in Tourette's patients, the biblical principles for overcoming enslaving sins should be applied . . . The tic is only a superficial problem. The primary issue is the urge that prompts it. The individual has become enslaved. He is willing to do whatever it takes (i.e. the tic), even if it is sinful, to gain fleeting relief from the urge. . . What psychology attributes to a faulty inhibitory mechanism in the brain, the Bible calls a seared conscience and a hardened heart. The only real hope for a hardened heart is repentance, regeneration, and transformation by the Holy Spirit."

Are these treatments ethical? Therepauetic? Should they be illegal (I'm not saying neccessarily yes or no)?

In the case of some of those disorders I would say that the cause that is cited very likely played a role in the development of the condition. However I totally disagree that the entire treatment is as simple as simply repenting. Repeated behavior builds chemical and physical changes in the brain that must be addressed. Addictions would fall into this category. While the initial cause of starting the behavior may have been related to not relating to God in a constructive way, simply telling the addict to repent and pray harder will almost never result in long term success.

OTOH, in many of those conditions, it is a chemical or physical difference in the brain that causes the condition. Prayer and working to change ways of thinking can be helpful, but the primary treatment needs to address the actual physical/chemical abnormalities.
 
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wanderingone

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The frightening thing to me is how hard it is to avoid allowing these people to set up shop as credible therapists. Unfortunately the only thing that can be "illegal" is if therapists claim credentials they don't have. Far too many people of various faiths have a misguided belief that medical science is in opposition to their faith.
When I finally got treatment for depression some years ago my doctor asked about my beliefs, supported the idea of a SUPPORTIVE faith community, and treated my illness with the medicine I needed. I was a very fortunate. The first medication used helped started helping within a few weeks, and I was back to functional and well within months. I am also fortunate to be part fo a church where my pastor had no problem saying "You are not taking care of yourself if you don't get help for this condition, does your insurance cover this and can I offer you help getting to your first appointment?" and NEVER suggested that "wrong thinking" was the cause of my medical problem.

The idea that illnesses should not be treated is not in scripture even if you take the Bible literally. These people who believe the examples giving by the OP have not escaped the dark ages when we did not have scientific knowledge about the body and looked to the super natural for cause and cure.
 
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