Is there salvation without Mary?

robycop3 · Sep 5, 2020

Jesus' parables often reflected real-life events & situations. We see in His parable of the unnamed rich man & the beggal Lazarus that souls in hades are awake, as the rich man & Abraham spoke. Were the souls not awake, Jesus would not have had them speaking in His parable.

And again, Mary has nothing to do with our salvation.

concretecamper · Sep 5, 2020

Albion said:
No, they don't. And that is probably why the names of all these "main line denominations" that supposedly teach that notion have yet to be produced by anyone on this thread.

you'll have a harder time convincing your fellow protestants that they dont believe in a magical state some call soul sleep than convincing us they dont.

Albion · Sep 5, 2020

concretecamper said:
you'll have a harder time convincing your fellow protestants that they dont believe in a magical state some call soul sleep than convincing us they dont.

You don't want to be convinced, but there's nothing new about Catholics cherishing their mistaken theories about what "Protestants" are supposed to believe.

I simply gave you the correct information about this particular teaching in case you were willing to hear it...and also so that other readers wouldn't be misled by what had been posted on this thread.

Albion · Sep 5, 2020

robycop3 said:
Jesus' parables often reflected real-life events & situations. We see in His parable of the unnamed rich man & the beggal Lazarus that souls in hades are awake, as the rich man & Abraham spoke. Were the souls not awake, Jesus would not have had them speaking in His parable.

That MAY be true to some degree, but of course the Lazarus story itself is impossible, so taking even one part of it literally is not advisable. The souls in Hell do not converse with the living, nor do the living send water to spirits.

robycop3 · Sep 5, 2020

Albion said:
That MAY be true to some degree, but of course the Lazarus story itself is impossible, so taking even one part of it literally is not advisable. The souls in Hell do not converse with the living, nor do the living send water to spirits.

But please note in the parable that paradise & torments is separated by a great gulf, & the rich man, being new to torments, didn't know Lazarus couldn't cross over to him. And, he didn't know that only GOD could send a soul of a dead person to the living, and, far as I know, the only time that happened was when He sent Samuel to Saul. And the rich man didn't know what his bros were doing after he died.

robycop3 · Sep 5, 2020

concretecamper said:
you'll have a harder time convincing your fellow protestants that they dont believe in a magical state some call soul sleep than convincing us they dont.

There are just a few pseudo-quasi/Christian cults that believe in soul sleep. Jesus went to paradise 3 days & nights, & He said nothing about sleeping in that time.

And if YOU believe in soul sleep, then you don't actually believe Mary has anything to do with earthly events any more.

Albion · Sep 5, 2020

robycop3 said:
But please note in the parable that paradise & torments is separated by a great gulf, & the rich man, being new to torments, didn't know Lazarus couldn't cross over to him.

Yes, I know, but the two of them were still supposedly talking to each other!

concretecamper · Sep 5, 2020

robycop3 said:
There are just a few pseudo-quasi/Christian cults that believe in soul sleep. Jesus went to paradise 3 days & nights, & He said nothing about sleeping in that time.

you dont have to convince me, just the majority of protestantism

Albion · Sep 5, 2020

robycop3 said:
There are just a few pseudo-quasi/Christian cults that believe in soul sleep.

That's right, both about the few who do and also as for the description of the others as being thought of as (at the least) quasi-cults for promoting soul sleep.

robycop3 · Sep 6, 2020

Albion said:
Yes, I know, but the two of them were still supposedly talking to each other!

Right, but both were in hades, in separate areas.

James A · Sep 7, 2020

robycop3 said:
But please note in the parable that paradise & torments is separated by a great gulf, & the rich man, being new to torments, didn't know Lazarus couldn't cross over to him. And, he didn't know that only GOD could send a soul of a dead person to the living, and, far as I know, the only time that happened was when He sent Samuel to Saul. And the rich man didn't know what his bros were doing after he died.

Lazarus could not cross the gulf by his own but, to state the obvious, God can move him over.

Prayer for the departed is an acknowledgement that God can forgive a person irrespective of space, time and composition - with or without the body.

James A · Sep 7, 2020

Albion said:
No, they don't. And that is probably why the names of all these "main line denominations" that supposedly teach that notion have yet to be produced by anyone on this thread.

If they did not redefine death, why would they oppose the intercession of the departed souls?

Albion · Sep 7, 2020

James A said:
If they did not redefine death, why would they oppose the intercession of the departed souls?

I don't know that they do "oppose the intercession of the departed souls."

It's us praying to them that is opposed, and that's because this practice has no basis in God's word.

James A · Sep 7, 2020

Albion said:
I don't know that they do "oppose the intercession of the departed souls."

It's us praying to them that is opposed, and that's because this practice has no basis in God's word.

"intercession of departed souls" in this context is same as "praying to the departed souls". In case it is not clear, praying to the departed soul is requesting their intercession.

If you have missed this, I stated in post #108 why some people are unable to see Biblical teaching on the prayers to the departed souls. And that the burden of proof is on those who believe praying makes no sense.

Albion · Sep 8, 2020

James A said:
If you have missed this, I stated in post #108 why some people are unable to see Biblical teaching on the prayers to the departed souls.

The reason the Christians you asked about do not approve of us mortals praying TO departed souls is because the practice is unBiblical. It's really no more complicated than that.

Major1 · Sep 8, 2020

b4jesustoday said:
Is there salvation without Mary?

is she the mother of our salvation?

our hope?

The fact is that there is absolutely NO salvation with Mary at all.

She is the mother of Jesus Christ and she has nothing at all to do with us being saved.

In fact, Mary had to accept Jesus as the Christ in order for her to be saved.

Major1 · Sep 8, 2020

TexFire316 said:
Salvation comes from the Father, and Him alone. He sent His Son, to make the sacrifice, and the Son obeyed the Father.
There is no other way to please God.

John 14:6......
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

IF that is true, then why are we having a discussion on whether or not Mary has something to do with the salvation of men.

Major1 · Sep 8, 2020

James A said:
"intercession of departed souls" in this context is same as "praying to the departed souls". In case it is not clear, praying to the departed soul is requesting their intercession.

If you have missed this, I stated in post #108 why some people are unable to see Biblical teaching on the prayers to the departed souls. And that the burden of proof is on those who believe praying makes no sense.

Praying to the dead is unbiblical. The Bible condemns it as both useless and dangerous. Very often, personal issues are left unresolved when a loved one dies.

Those left behind may wish to speak the words they needed to say beforehand, in hopes that the dead can hear. But the dead cannot hear. Instead, speak to the only One Who can bring closure to our own hearts. Tell God how you feel, what you think about the other person, and whatever regrets you may have.

Jesus is the only mediator we need; because of His sacrifice we see in Hebrews 4:16........
"Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need".

The power of Christ in us brings healing, not the involvement of the dead.

Major1 · Sep 8, 2020

b4jesustoday said:
Mary only giving birth to and only mothering the humanity of Jesus is a condemned heresy! She is the mother of His entire person, He is God and she is His mother!

It is obvious that you do not know the meaning of "Heresy".

Major1 · Sep 8, 2020

b4jesustoday said:
Mary only giving birth to and only mothering the humanity of Jesus is a condemned heresy! She is the mother of His entire person, He is God and she is His mother!

Mary the mother of Jesus according to the Bible was a godly and blessed woman, but she was not without sin. Jesus was the only human without sin.

Now that is what the Bible says and I am aware that the Catholic church has told you something different. So then what YOU believe comes down to what YOU choose to believe....God or Men.

Jesus “had no sin”. “In him is no sin” as told to us in the Bible.

Nothing of the sort is ever said of Mary or anyone else. Jesus Christ is fully human, but He is also fully God. He is the Lamb of God, “without blemish or defect” which is a title and description no other person can claim.

As an ordinary part of the human race, born into the world the ordinary way, Mary was not without sin.

THE BIBLE in Romans 3:23 teaches that all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory, and there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Mary was an exception to this rule.

The apostle John wrote in 1 John 1:8-10.......
“If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us”.

The “we” in this passage includes Mary, the mother of Jesus. To claim Mary is without sin is an example of “deceit.”

Do YOU have those Bible Scriptures in YOUR copy of the Scriptures????????

Is there salvation without Mary?

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