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you must move out of the OT and into the new. Abraham's bosom is what I think you are referring to.Paradise isn't heaven; it's the area in hades where the souls of the righteous go
why ask me to show you scripture. The bible doesnt command me to listen to the bible. The bible does command me to listen to the Church.And please show me a Scripture where the dead hear prayers !
I'm not sure where you came up with this idea. Perhaps you can show us?And there's joy in HEAVEN, not paradise, when a lost person becomes saved.
why ask me to show you scripture. The bible doesnt command me to listen to the bible. The bible does command me to listen to the Church.
I'm not sure where you came up with this idea. Perhaps you can show us?
And that's paradise.you must move out of the OT and into the new. Abraham's bosom is what I think you are referring to.
why ask me to show you scripture. The bible doesnt command me to listen to the bible. The bible does command me to listen to the Church.
I'm not sure where you came up with this idea. Perhaps you can show us?
He didnt speak GreekFrom the words of Jesus Himself. Many times, He used the word ouranos,
Jesus was always fully divine, and for eternity had pre existed Mary's birth.If Mary only bore the flesh of Jesus, then where was the Divinity? When did Jesus become both fully human and fully Divine?
Er, yes he did.He didnt speak Greek
And please show me a Scripture where the dead hear prayers !
Is there salvation without Mary?
is she the mother of our salvation?
our hope?
Is there salvation without Mary?
is she the mother of our salvation?
our hope?
This is not the same context, but if not for Mary, salvation would have still rise for the Jews from another place:
Esther 4:14 For if you keep silent at this time, relief and deliverance will rise for the Jews from another place, but you and your father's house will perish. And who knows whether you have not come to the kingdom for such a time as this?”
I don't think the Bible gives a specific account of what happens after death. Many people aren't content with that, so we have lots of speculation, the most lurid typically coming from the Rev.For the first fifteen hundred years, Christendom understood death as the temporary separation of body and Soul ( and they never had trouble explaining the "death of God"). It were the Reformists who deviated from the teaching and redefined death as "slumber", "deep sleep" etc.
If a Spirit is able to intercede for others when it is with the body, naturally, it is able to intercede for others when it is without the body. In fact it is the body which ties a Sprit to the physical space and time so departed Souls should be able to interact with God freely.
This puts the burden of proof on the Reformists - can you show me Scripture which says departed Souls cannot intercede for others?
Just curious, what is your opinion on the Lazarus (of Lazarus and the the rich man) concerned about the spiritual life of his relatives?
Esther 4
Good News Translation
Mordecai Asks for Esther's Help
4 When Mordecai learned of all that had been done, he tore his clothes in anguish. Then he dressed in sackcloth, covered his head with ashes, and walked through the city, wailing loudly and bitterly, 2 until he came to the entrance of the palace. He did not go in because no one wearing sackcloth was allowed inside. 3 Throughout all the provinces, wherever the king's proclamation was made known, there was loud mourning among the Jews. They fasted, wept, wailed, and most of them put on sackcloth and lay in ashes.
4 When Esther's servant women and eunuchs told her what Mordecai was doing, she was deeply disturbed. She sent Mordecai some clothes to put on instead of the sackcloth, but he would not accept them. 5 Then she called Hathach, one of the palace eunuchs appointed as her servant by the king, and told him to go to Mordecai and find out what was happening and why. 6 Hathach went to Mordecai in the city square at the entrance of the palace. 7 Mordecai told him everything that had happened to him and just how much money Haman had promised to put into the royal treasury if all the Jews were killed. 8 He gave Hathach a copy of the proclamation that had been issued in Susa, ordering the destruction of the Jews. Mordecai asked him to take it to Esther, explain the situation to her, and have her go and plead with the king and beg him to have mercy on her people. 9 Hathach did this, 10 and Esther gave him this message to take back to Mordecai: 11 “If anyone, man or woman, goes to the inner courtyard and sees the king without being summoned, that person must die. That is the law; everyone, from the king's advisers to the people in the provinces, knows that. There is only one way to get around this law: if the king holds out his gold scepter to someone, then that person's life is spared. But it has been a month since the king sent for me.”
12 When Mordecai received Esther's message, 13 he sent her this warning: “Don't imagine that you are safer than any other Jew just because you are in the royal palace. 14 If you keep quiet at a time like this, help will come from heaven to the Jews, and they will be saved, but you will die and your father's family will come to an end. Yet who knows—maybe it was for a time like this that you were made queen!”
15 Esther sent Mordecai this reply: 16 “Go and get all the Jews in Susa together; hold a fast and pray for me. Don't eat or drink anything for three days and nights. My servant women and I will be doing the same. After that, I will go to the king, even though it is against the law. If I must die for doing it, I will die.”
17 Mordecai then left and did everything that Esther had told him to do.
In context, this text has nothing to do with Mary, nor with Jesus.
Mary only giving birth to and only mothering the humanity of Jesus is a condemned heresy! She is the mother of His entire person, He is God and she is His mother!
In my post, I direct said that it was not the same context, nevertheless it speaks in regard to a principle that is just as true of Mary.
I don't think the Bible gives a specific account of what happens after death. Many people aren't content with that, so we have lots of speculation, the most lurid typically coming from the Rev.
The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man implies an intermediate state. 1 Cor 15, while not explicit, suggests that people are asleep until resurrected. Lazarus would be an odd precedent for invoking the dead, since (1) no one prayed to him, (2) his attempts to intercede for those alive were rejected, with the explanation that what people know from Scripture ("Moses and the prophets") should be sufficient.
I don't think the Bible gives a specific account of what happens after death. Many people aren't content with that, so we have lots of speculation, the most lurid typically coming from the Rev.
The story of Lazarus and the Rich Man implies an intermediate state. 1 Cor 15, while not explicit, suggests that people are asleep until resurrected. Lazarus would be an odd precedent for invoking the dead, since (1) no one prayed to him, (2) his attempts to intercede for those alive were rejected, with the explanation that what people know from Scripture ("Moses and the prophets") should be sufficient.
It's not clear whether we should take Lazarus as a serious account of the afterlife. It's pretty clearly told primarily as a dig aimed at the non-believing Jews: if they won't believe Scripture, no additional revelation will do it, not even Jesus coming back from the dead.
As long as one stick to the traditional understanding of "death", he/she would not expect an explicit teaching about the departed souls. Remember, it was the Reformists redefining "death" that led to the confusion. As I stated in post #108, burden of proof is on Reformists.
//(1) no one prayed to him,//
Proof please.
//(2) his attempts to intercede for those alive were rejected//
The matter of discussion is whether the departed souls are concerned about the spiritual life of others or not. No one claims that the intercession of the departed always accepted by God.
For the first fifteen hundred years, Christendom understood death as the temporary separation of body and Soul ( and they never had trouble explaining the "death of God"). It were the Reformists who deviated from the teaching and redefined death as "slumber", "deep sleep" etc.
If a Spirit is able to intercede for others when it is with the body, naturally, it is able to intercede for others when it is without the body. In fact it is the body which ties a Sprit to the physical space and time so departed Souls should be able to interact with God freely.
This puts the burden of proof on the Reformists - can you show me Scripture which says departed Souls cannot intercede for others?
Just curious, what is your opinion on the Lazarus (of Lazarus and the the rich man) concerned about the spiritual life of his relatives?
For the first fifteen hundred years, Christendom understood death as the temporary separation of body and Soul ( and they never had trouble explaining the "death of God"). It were the Reformists who deviated from the teaching and redefined death as "slumber", "deep sleep" etc.
If a Spirit is able to intercede for others when it is with the body, naturally, it is able to intercede for others when it is without the body. In fact it is the body which ties a Sprit to the physical space and time so departed Souls should be able to interact with God freely.
This puts the burden of proof on the Reformists - can you show me Scripture which says departed Souls cannot intercede for others?
Just curious, what is your opinion on the Lazarus (of Lazarus and the the rich man) concerned about the spiritual life of his relatives?
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