Is there salvation without Mary?

hedrick · Aug 23, 2020

I accept that our Catholic participants don't believe this, but a certain part of the Catholic tradition does: MARY IS NECESSARY. Here's a more moderate explanation: Mary, Mother of Salvation, which nevertheless will seem questionable to many. Here's a more detailed explanation from another conservative site: How Can Catholics Understand Mary as Co-Redemprix, Mediatrix of All Graces and Advocate? - Featured Today - Catholic Online

robycop3 · Aug 23, 2020

Mary simply happened to be the female descendant of David's that God chose to be the mother of Jesus when Jesus became human while still being God.

Mary had done nothing special except being righteous. She was GOD'S choice; she had no inkling of her coming role til Gabriel visited her.

Apparently, Joseph had died before Jesus was crucified. In that time/place, widows were often left destitute, and, as we don't know what became of most of Jesus' earthly siblings, He told John to become her son to look after her, to see she had food, clothes, & shelter, as well as to take His place as her son, carnally speaking.

Mary certainly isn't a "mediatrix" between man & Jesus. She certainly had no "Immaculate Conception"; there's nothing saying she wasn't conceived/born in the normal manner. She sinned, same as everyone else except Jesus. And she apparently died, same as almost everyone else normally has after so many years.

concretecamper · Aug 23, 2020

hedrick said:
I accept that our Catholic participants don't believe this, but a certain part of the Catholic tradition does: MARY IS NECESSARY. This site is probably schismatic. Here's a more moderate explanation: Mary, Mother of Salvation, which nevertheless will seem questionable to many.

I dont think this site is schismatic. It is interesting to read something from the 11th Century Archbishop of Canterbury.

"Mary, by being the Mother of God, was the means of saving sinners; so sinners, by proclaiming her praises, will obtain salvation."

St. Anselm

hedrick · Aug 23, 2020

concretecamper said:
I dont think this site is schismatic.

I've looked at it more carefully. I agree. It's not quite schismatic. I've edited the post.

hedrick · Aug 23, 2020

I would agree that Mary was not asked for her consent. The angels said it was going to happen. She accepted it. What else could she say?

concretecamper · Aug 23, 2020

hedrick said:
What else could she say?

many things other than "be it done to me according to your word."

Dave L · Aug 23, 2020

b4jesustoday said:
Is there salvation without Mary?

is she the mother of our salvation?

our hope?

All OT believers were saved.

xxkingskidlmxx · Aug 23, 2020

Mary as the mother of God is there for the purpose of symbolizing the only female worthy of respect by being the symbolic mother to all the other little gods.

WebersHome · Aug 23, 2020

.
● Luke 1:46-47 . . My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior

That's not a good verse to use in proving that Jesus' mom was a sinner in need of redemption because in the Jewish thinking of that day, a savior was different than what we Christians think of one today. For example Neh 9:27 and Obad 1:21 where saviors are depicted as benefactors and knights in shining armor, so to speak; which is pretty much how Jesus' mom portrayed God in her so-called Magnificat.

● Luke 1:48-55 . .He has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me-- holy is His name. His mercy extends to those who fear Him, from generation to generation.

. . . He has performed mighty deeds with his arm; He has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts. He has brought down rulers from their thrones but has lifted up the humble. He has filled the hungry with good things but has sent the rich away empty. He has helped his servant Israel, remembering to be merciful to Abraham and his descendants forever, even as He said to our fathers.
_

WebersHome · Aug 23, 2020

.

concretecamper said:
it is ok if you tap out.

An apostle's instructions should never be taken lightly by people passing themselves off as Christ's followers.

● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

● 1Thess 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as you have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For you know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

People who truly want to please God will comply with the commandments that Paul gave the churches by the Lord Jesus. Those who care little about pleasing God won't comply.

● John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.

● John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.

● John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.

● John 15:14 . . .You are my friends if you do whatever I command you.
_

WebersHome · Aug 23, 2020

.
One time when Jesus and his mom were invited to a wedding party; she instructed the servants thereabouts to do as her son instructed. You know, that is exactly what God wants too.

● Matt 17:5 . . While Peter was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said: This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!

The more I look into the life and times of Jesus' mom, the more I sincerely admire her unity with God. She agreed to an unplanned pregnancy, she agreed to bear a socially illegitimate child, she praised God for making her blessed and famous, and she instructed people to do as Jesus said-- all the while before ever becoming a Christian.
_

robycop3 · Aug 23, 2020

But again, she has nothing to do with OUR salvation, she is NOT a "mediatrix" between men & Jesus, & she doesn't know nor care about what's going on now.

b4jesustoday · Aug 23, 2020

2 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

they came to faith thru her intercession!

thecolorsblend · Aug 23, 2020

Francis Drake said:
There is no place in scripture that indicates she had any involvement apart from giving birth and mothering the humanity of Jesus.

Iow, she was infinitely closer to Our Lord in His life, crucifixion, death and resurrection than any other human being before or since.

She played a role. Simple as that.

Francis Drake said:
ie. She was mother to Jesus the man, not mother of Jesus as God, who has always existed, obviously aeons before Mary was born

"Mother of God" is a title Our Lady has carried virtually from the start of the Church to the present day.

b4jesustoday · Aug 23, 2020

Mother of the humanity of Jesus alone is a condemned heresy! Mother of God is Dogma Or “de fide”, “thee faith”

robycop3 · Aug 23, 2020

Jesus existed long before Mary. Remember, He said, "When David was,I AM."

b4jesustoday · Aug 23, 2020

Mother of God!
Immaculate conception!
Sinless!
Perpetual Virgin!
Assumed into heaven body and soul!
Ark of the new covenant!

rejected by the heretics!
Accepted by the fathers, doctors, and saints for 2000 yrs!

xxkingskidlmxx · Aug 23, 2020

as ye judge so shall ye be judged

b4jesustoday · Aug 23, 2020

God is by nature uncreated and eternal!

Mary is the mother of Christ!
Not the source of His being Christ but His mother who is Christ so she is the mother of Christ!

solid_core · Aug 23, 2020

b4jesustoday said:
God is by nature uncreated and eternal!

Mary is the mother of Christ!
Not the source of His being Christ but His mother who is Christ so she is the mother of Christ!

When a man becomes adult, we do not look at him through his mother.

Jesus was 30 when He began His mission, so I do not know why you still concentrate on His biological mother.

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