Is there really going to be an end time revival?

Hungree · Jul 24, 2005

NewSong said:
I keep hearing about revival and yet I don't know where everyone is getting the idea there will be an endtime revival.

Also what is revival?

I have sat in services that were called "revival services" and so I have a definition of what revival means to me

What does revival mean to you?

The word "revival" has such a bad connotation to it. A "revival" is not going to church
everynight for a week. A revival is when something is dead comes back to life. I prefer
to call this a revolution. ("Do you want a revolution, wha wha" (the Kirk Franklin Song)"
There will be an end time revolution in the tribulation.

"After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count,
from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing before the throne and in front
of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in there
hands...These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed
their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." - Revelation 7:9 & 14 (NIV)

Now if there is a pre-tribulation rapture then there would have to be a huge revolution
for so many to be converted in only a couple (maybe even one or less) years.
There will be an end-time tribulational revival/revolution. I believe that we all would agree with that statement.
As to whether or not there will be a revival before the tribulation, I do not know, but I tell God in my prayers, "Father, for the sake of what Jesus did on the cross, please let there be an end-time revival."
Pray.

Hungree · Jul 24, 2005

However, I have experienced a revival of sorts at one time. That event was sparked by a group of believers practicing communion with a New Testament approach of breaking bread according to Biblical principles. This lead to an increased awareness of personal sin and a desire to confess and repent of sins. It also lead to an increased level of loving unity and fellowship, prayerfulness with all-night prayer meetings accompanied by deliverance and healing.

Excellent post. I am thrilled to know that that a renewal of the importance of communion in the life of the believer is something that apparently is accepted here in SFPC.

bigg35 · Jul 24, 2005

New Song,

I said, "The modern teaching in so many of today's churches in revival, includes the notion that we are little God's ... especially in Word of Faith circles. When the anti-christ appears all he will be doing is taking this doctrine to its logical conclusion ... and the deluded will praise his charisma, miracles and doctrines." To explain,

In, for example, Word of Faith circles, there is the teaching which extends from (other teaching, and those - rightly or wrongly) being 'in-christ', 'kings kids', 'joint heirs', 'body of Christ (anointed one)' that in effect we are little gods (note, small 'g' - but gods nevertheless. Parallel teaching includes your 'faith filled words come to pass' because we are made in the 'god class' etc.

Now, some ministers and ministries may not word things quite this bluntly, but doctrine which goes beyond Scripture, or twists Scripture like this is very prevalent.

Now, the first Scripture I referenced

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy (turning/falling away; in the Greek a defection or revolt) comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

... identifies that the apostacy (a revolt against the true God, the God of the Bible) will occur at the end times. So many heresies and blasphemies are out there because (so-called) ministers grab isolated verses of the Bible - out of context - and make a doctrine out of it. The antichrist when he comes is, as the New Testament says, the man of lawlessness (ie without law ... without the Word of God). That he will sit in the temple and make himself out to be god will NOT be shocking to the Christian world which agrees with the notion of being "God's children and therefore little gods" (or any variant form of this).

Finally, the second Scripture quote,

2 Thessalonians 2:8-10
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

... identifies that the antichrists (antichrist meaning a substitute for Christ - ie some other [supposedly] specially anointed person) will do signs and wonders. And those enamour with the "anointing" and "signs and wonders" - and all experiential based theology - will disregard what the Word of God (in-context) says. And since they did not have a love of the truth (ie God's Word) - but decided what was good themselves, they will perish.

And at this point it is probably worth pointing out verse 11 as well.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

If we do not love the Word of God and use it as our guide - then we love deception. And to those that love deception God Himself will harden their hearts (just like He did to pharoah) and sent a deception. If we love deception then God will send us deception.

And this when so many are saying our churches have revival etc. Revival into what? Deception? People are more interested in the "anointing" or the "experience" - and the spiritually drunk in their stupor will perish.

Sorry NewSong, I started preaching. Anyway, you can see what I mean.

Brett

NewSong · Jul 24, 2005

bigg35 said:
New Song,

I said, "The modern teaching in so many of today's churches in revival, includes the notion that we are little God's ... especially in Word of Faith circles. When the anti-christ appears all he will be doing is taking this doctrine to its logical conclusion ... and the deluded will praise his charisma, miracles and doctrines." To explain,

In, for example, Word of Faith circles, there is the teaching which extends from (other teaching, and those - rightly or wrongly) being 'in-christ', 'kings kids', 'joint heirs', 'body of Christ (anointed one)' that in effect we are little gods (note, small 'g' - but gods nevertheless. Parallel teaching includes your 'faith filled words come to pass' because we are made in the 'god class' etc.

Now, some ministers and ministries may not word things quite this bluntly, but doctrine which goes beyond Scripture, or twists Scripture like this is very prevalent.

Now, the first Scripture I referenced

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy (turning/falling away; in the Greek a defection or revolt) comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

... identifies that the apostacy (a revolt against the true God, the God of the Bible) will occur at the end times. So many heresies and blasphemies are out there because (so-called) ministers grab isolated verses of the Bible - out of context - and make a doctrine out of it. The antichrist when he comes is, as the New Testament says, the man of lawlessness (ie without law ... without the Word of God). That he will sit in the temple and make himself out to be god will NOT be shocking to the Christian world which agrees with the notion of being "God's children and therefore little gods" (or any variant form of this).

Finally, the second Scripture quote,

2 Thessalonians 2:8-10
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

... identifies that the antichrists (antichrist meaning a substitute for Christ - ie some other [supposedly] specially anointed person) will do signs and wonders. And those enamour with the "anointing" and "signs and wonders" - and all experiential based theology - will disregard what the Word of God (in-context) says. And since they did not have a love of the truth (ie God's Word) - but decided what was good themselves, they will perish.

And at this point it is probably worth pointing out verse 11 as well.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

If we do not love the Word of God and use it as our guide - then we love deception. And to those that love deception God Himself will harden their hearts (just like He did to pharoah) and sent a deception. If we love deception then God will send us deception.

And this when so many are saying our churches have revival etc. Revival into what? Deception? People are more interested in the "anointing" or the "experience" - and the spiritually drunk in their stupor will perish.

Sorry NewSong, I started preaching. Anyway, you can see what I mean.

Brett

Thank you for the clarification. I am glad you elaborated more on the subject.
It really helped me see what you are saying. And I believe you gave me more food for thought.

Thank you so much.

NewSong

YAWANNAKNOWJESUS? · Jul 24, 2005

Matthew 16.3b applies to you, too. Yawanna.

Jim it applies to everyone.

The modern teaching in so many of today's churches in revival, includes the notion that we are little God's ...

Click to expand...

Maybe in some churches but I and the church that I am a member of beleive and teach that we need Jesus. We are nothing compared to Almighty God. Look at yourself next to Him and you will see that you are nothing beside Him. We need Jesus. We need Jesus. We need Jesus. Not a one of of us has all that we need do you know how I know that because of the fighting the argueing the bickering the name calling. If we truely had all of God that He has to offer those things would not be happening amongst the body of Christ.We need Jesus. We need JesusWe need Jesus. We need JesusWe need Jesus. We need JesusWe need Jesus. We need Jesus

mortsmune · Jul 24, 2005

Jim M said:
Personally, I think revival (whatever that actually is) is all around us.

I dont know what its like in your neck of the woods, but wherever I look I am seeing the Holy Spirit doing a wonderful work. In the U.S. churches are being planted everywhere and growing like wildfire; thousands are being saved weekly; more and more people are entering the ministry and planting congregations; Christians are more visible and more heard than ever; Christian publishing and Christian music is hitting the mainstream; Christian radio is more powerful than it has ever been; technology is spreading the Word everywhere (like here on CF, blogs, chat lines, etc).

The glass is half-full, Hal. Depends on how you look at it.

~Jim

With all that visibility and Christian music, radio, and TV, why does it not seem to be changing our society for the better? Divorce is more common in the Church than in the world, 75-80% of Christians are having sex before marriage, etc. In the great historical revivals of the past, as well as the one at the beginning of the church in Acts, the society was transformed. In Acts the Christians were called those who have turned the world upside down. Today it seems more like the world is turning the church upside down. Christians may be more visible, but they are also more worldly, generally speaking, that is. Obviously that it not universally true.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 25, 2005

bigg35 said:
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy (turning/falling away; in the Greek a defection or revolt) comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

The modern teaching in so many of today's churches in revival, includes the notion that we are little God's ... especially in Word of Faith circles. When the anti-christ appears all he will be doing is taking this doctrine to its logical conclusion ... and the deluded will praise his charisma, miracles and doctrines.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-10
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

You quoted some quite powerful verses of scripture, but your exposition is very small. In criticising the Word of Faith churches (and I not a member of a Word of Faith church, so I don't have any alterior motives for saying this), you are putting down thousands of Christians who love the Lord and who are living their lives sincerely believing that Jesus died for them on the cross.

You are basically telling us that you believe that the Word of Faith churches are the vehicles for bringing in the Antichrist. I don't think that your references prove that at all.

There have been people over the centuries who believed that the Roman Catholic church was the vehicle for the Antichrist, and they had all sorts of scriptures to 'prove' that. Then there was a charismatic revival in the Catholic church and the Holy Spirit fell on them in the same way that the Spirit fell on the Pentecostals and Protestant charismatics.

I suggest that you read a couple of good commentaries to get an idea of what people who study the Word of God closely say about those scriptures.

At the moment, all you are accomplishing is giving an image of yourself as a wierdo beardo walking the streets with a big placard saying "The End of The World is Nigh!" There was a very funny picture of one of these guys carrying a placard like that, just about to step into an open manhole that he does not see in front of him.

If you are going to quote scripture, for goodness sake give us a reasonable exposition so we can have an intelligent discussion about it. You will learn more, and so will we.

bigg35 · Jul 25, 2005

Oscarr

Point conceded. NewSong asked for clarification, which I gave above.

One thing though, I am not saying that WoF is necessarily the vehicle in which the antichrist will come in, but for those in WoF there is very much a potential for susceptibility.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 25, 2005

bigg35 said:
Oscarr

Point conceded. NewSong asked for clarification, which I gave above.

One thing though, I am not saying that WoF is necessarily the vehicle in which the antichrist will come in, but for those in WoF there is very much a potential for susceptibility.

Yes, I can see your point.

luvinjesus111 · Jul 25, 2005

Well this is my thought on the matter & mind you I hav'nt been saved but a little over a year, but what I pray for when praying for a revival is to see a great outpouring of the Holy Spirit to fall on many souls and bring them to repentance & to see them come into church.(in masses) And also when think about Acts 2v17 I tend to think that could happen in a big way before Jesus comes

JimB · Jul 25, 2005

mortsmune said:
With all that visibility and Christian music, radio, and TV, why does it not seem to be changing our society for the better? Divorce is more common in the Church than in the world, 75-80% of Christians are having sex before marriage, etc. In the great historical revivals of the past, as well as the one at the beginning of the church in Acts, the society was transformed. In Acts the Christians were called those who have turned the world upside down. Today it seems more like the world is turning the church upside down. Christians may be more visible, but they are also more worldly, generally speaking, that is. Obviously that it not universally true.

These are valid points and I do not deny that things are bad. But I have been in the church for more than 40 years and I can tell you it has always been bad. Because of the encroachments of the unregenerate world through TV, movies, etc. we are being hammered, but we are still not being fed to the lions nor are our political leaders bloodthirsty murderers (immoral, perhaps, but they are not slaughtering American citizens yet). Still, I see as much commitment to Christ among Christians, desire for service, and love for God as I have always seen. We know more about wickedness I the camp because our media is more refined than it has ever been. IMO.

Personally, I do not see Christians as being more worldly than ever. Anyhow, that term has a lot a varying subjective definitions and I am not sure which one is yours.

As for the revival you mention, an interesting study of these society-changing revivals (like the Great Awakening, Second Awakening, etc.) is to see what happened to society after the religious fervor died down. I have made such a study as part of my degree in U.S. cultural history. Things pretty much went back to their pre-fervor state within weeks/months, making me think that these moves of God were more of a sociological phenomenon than anything else. If it were a true revival (using the popular definition) I would think that the effects should have lasted more than months. In fact, IMO, if it were genuine, it would have made the reforms permanent.

~Jim

YAWANNAKNOWJESUS? · Jul 25, 2005

If it were a true revival (using the popular definition) I would think that the effects should have lasted more than months. In fact, IMO, if it were genuine, it would have made the reforms permanent.

And that my dear Jim is what I have been referring to all along. It will not and cannot come through any man only our Lord. Not through or because of any series of meetings that's all that the much of the revivals of today are just a series of meetings. That's not what I want I want Jesus. Without Him my family will not come to Jesus.

swifteagle · Jul 25, 2005

JimM said:
As for the revival you mention, an interesting study of these society-changing revivals (like the Great Awakening, Second Awakening, etc.) is to see what happened to society after the religious fervor died down. I have made such a study as part of my degree in U.S. cultural history. Things pretty much went back to their pre-fervor state within weeks/months, making me think that these moves of God were more of a sociological phenomenon than anything else. If it were a true revival (using the popular definition) I would think that the effects should have lasted more than months. In fact, IMO, if it were genuine, it would have made the reforms permanent.

I think that reforms carry on in the hearts and lives of the believers who embraced a particular revival. For example.. I was very impacted by the "Renewal" movement. Many people were. It has died down now ~ maybe that is not the right phrase...it has changed into something more intimate with the Lord. The "movement" is not so much a group thing now, as it is an individual thing. Many people I know who embraced Renewal are moving into Signs & Wonders & Miracles and intimacy with the Lord. I see many people tremendously impacted in their personal spiritual lives. I attribute it to the Renewal movement. I am looking forward to whatever glory the Lord wants to pour out on His people!

swifteagle ><>

JimB · Jul 25, 2005

swifteagle said:
I think that reforms carry on in the hearts and lives of the believers who embraced a particular revival. For example.. I was very impacted by the "Renewal" movement. Many people were. It has died down now ~ maybe that is not the right phrase...it has changed into something more intimate with the Lord. The "movement" is not so much a group thing now, as it is an individual thing. Many people I know who embraced Renewal are moving into Signs & Wonders & Miracles and intimacy with the Lord. I see many people tremendously impacted in their personal spiritual lives. I attribute it to the Renewal movement. I am looking forward to whatever glory the Lord wants to pour out on His people!

swifteagle ><>

In that case (and I dont necessarily disagree), I believe the Jesus Movement may have been one of the great revivals in American History, at least as far as changing the modern church and even society in general. I have always believed the Jesus Movement of the 1970s has been largely ignored by church historians who prefer to find revival centered in charismatic figures like Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, John Wesley, Martin Luther, Charles Finney, etc. The Movement was more of a God-thing but it brought in a contemporary approach to a contemporary society and our modern church is a reflection of what those wonderful long-haired, guitar-strumming kids brought to the world. Today, many of them are the mainstream church leaders of the 21st century.

~Jim

Johnny Be Good · Jul 25, 2005

Jim M said:
The Movement was more of a God-thing but it brought in a contemporary approach to a contemporary society and our modern church is a reflection of what those wonderful long-haired, guitar-strumming kids brought to the world. Today, many of them are the mainstream church leaders of the 21st century.

~Jim

Really?! Like who? Got any incriminating, long-hair photos?

swifteagle · Jul 25, 2005

Jim M said:
In that case (and I dont necessarily disagree), I believe the Jesus Movement may have been one of the great revivals in American History, at least as far as changing the modern church and even society in general. I have always believed the Jesus Movement of the 1970s has been largely ignored by church historians who prefer to find revival centered in charismatic figures like Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, John Wesley, Martin Luther, Charles Finney, etc. The Movement was more of a God-thing but it brought in a contemporary approach to a contemporary society and our modern church is a reflection of what those wonderful long-haired, guitar-strumming kids brought to the world. Today, many of them are the mainstream church leaders of the 21st century.

~Jim

When I was writing my previous post I had written a part about the Jesus Movement being a precursor & catalyst to what is happening now. But, I erased it as I didn't want to go into too much. I agree with you. It is under appreciated and many, many of the God Chasers of today were birthed through that movement.

I also believe that the end time revival is about the "reaper overtaking the sower" as spoken in Amos 9:13. Teaching is starting to come forth about the Lord accelerating the Harvest. I know we don't see it yet (with our natural eyes) but I do see it in the Spirit!

Blessings,

swifteagle ><>

JimB · Jul 25, 2005

Johnny Be Good said:
Really?! Like who? Got any incriminating, long-hair photos?

Glad you asked. I could name a few, like the late Mike Yaconelli, Chuck Smith, Greg Laurie, Don Williams, Arthur Blessit (whose witness to President Bush in 1984 marked the presidents conversions to Christ, see this PBS webpage at 1984), Glenn Kaiser, most of the record producers in Nashville, to name a few. Also, Calvary Chapel churches, Vineyard churches and ministries such as Jesus People USA can trace their roots to the Jesus Movement.

As for photos, you can find some great ones at this site: http://www.one-way.org/jesusmovement/.

~Jim

amorosi · Jul 26, 2005

Will there ever be a revival ??

Yes in revelation chapter twelve and chapter fourteen

To him that has ears to hear: then let him hear--what the spirit is saying to the churches.

Great indeed are the mysteries of God and his end-time plan, and purposes

I have many things to say you-- Jesus said--but you are --not able to bear it, or receive it--into your hearts { as in not being ready--still on milk--and not on strong meat }

NewSong · Jul 26, 2005

I tried this one out on my brother last night and it blew him out of the water that I would ask such a question. It sure doesn't leave any room for complacency, indifference, nor un-necessary risks to chance that there will be any outpouring, or visitation, etc., but I kind of let suck the hope out of me and I pray that it didn't for anyone else. I pray that regardless of this post and the opinions that we would draw nearer to God and let our lights shine and not hide them. God bless each of you for your fine posts and food for thought.

NewSong

JimB · Jul 26, 2005

I do not believe scripture explicitly teaches that there will be an endtime revival. Personally I doubt it. Anyhow, I dont have a clue what someone means when they say revival definitions of what it is are subjective and vary from person to person.

Scriptures that imply there could be one are also dubious because they rely on interpretations of prophetic passages or Old Testament prophecies and can be just as easily dismissed and accepted.

The best you can say is I think there might be an end time revival, but to categorically say there will be is stretching it.

~Jim

Is there really going to be an end time revival?

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