Is there really anything wrong with Communism?(moved frm GenTheo)

[Catch-22]

Communism is a failed ideology simply because it advocates AGAINST God or there even being a God, aside from the state, set up to be the only god.. That, in itself makes it a religion.

But neither does Capitalism advocate God either. Capitalism is all about making personal wealth at the expense of others.

The early church, described in Acts, had a pure form of Communism in that they shared everything. Christians are far too selfish for this today, especially in the West where we've been raised with Capitalist ideals.

The Christian worldview does not embrace communism because communism does not understand human nature as Christianity does. Communism is flawed from the start because it says what is wrong with humanity is class struggle. Christianity tells us that what is wrong with humanity is original sin. If you do not understand the problem, you will not be able to correct it.

Like I said above, Christians in the early church embraced a form of Communism in that they shared their goods and their wealth. It worked, for the Christians at least. And we all know that Christians can sin just as much as the unsaved person.

The current world status shows us that Capitalism can fail too. Too many people borrowing too much money which technically doesn't exist (i.e., credit) will eventually collapse the market. The problem, therefore, with all forms of Government is human greed. It really is a class struggle because the have nots continue to not have, while the haves continue to gain.

 

[TG123]

Communism is a failed ideology simply because it advocates AGAINST God or there even being a God, aside from the state, set up to be the only god.. That, in itself makes it a religion.

I agree. Any system that advocates against God is bound to fail. I am also going to add that capitalism does the same thing.

While communist regimes often flat out deny God's existence, capitalist countries try to replace faith in God with an egocentric worldview where one's wealth and comfort come first. God is not banished, He is replaced. The effect is the same- a society that cares more about a political ideology or personal comfort than in Jesus. And a society that is able to tolerate war and repression to maintain "the status quo".

Marxism and capitalism produce repression and suffering and injustice. God is God and He deserves our total worship- not red stars or green dollar bills. When we get our priorities mixed up, problems begin to arise.

 

[oldbetang]

Soviet Communism was far more savage and tyrannical than you seem to think. It's true that some Russians who lived under Stalin--and survived--think the system was not so bad, usually for two reasons: 1) guaranteed wages and pensions, if at a poverty level, and 2) national pride.

But Communism as it existed in that time was more barbaric than just about any regime in history, and it is impossible to excuse its crimes by comparing the USSR to any other governmental system.

The Soviets lost about 25 million people in the war. Stalin put TWICE that number to death merely because he was suspicious of anything that might challenge his total power. No Christian can look kindly upon that, even if we make inappropriate comparisons to the American Indians or, for that matter, to the treatment of the Highland clans following the Battle of Culloden. And then you are faced with justifying a system (Russian Communism) that amounts to a system that enslaved 1/7 of the whole world. We in the West seldom justify the bloody misdeeds of some of our forefathers, and there's no reason to whitewash the Soviet era just because it was somewhere else on the planet. If you really knew the policies of the Soviet government, it would curl your hair, I assure you.

BTW also, you can't compare Soviet Communism with Capitalism because Capitalism is an economic system, normally operating within a Democratic system of government. Stalism is absolute control of everything.

Well said.

 

[oldbetang]

What's the difference? It's sufficient to say that Soviet Communism under Stalin was Atheistic, Totalitarian, and murderous on an unprecedented scale. Nothing in that compares with the history of Capitalism, Democracy, or -- for that matter-- Christian theology.

What? Soviet Communism under Stalin was Totalitarian, and murderous on an unprecedented scale, yet Capitalism, democracy and christian theology were/are worse??

 

[oldbetang]

Albion,

After reading your subsequent posts, I'm a little less confused.

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

The bottom line is that neither unfettered capitalism nor strict Marxism can find clear, comprehensive support in Scripture...though one could cherry-pick single passages that would support some concepts one could label "Marxist" or "capitalist."

We also must bear in mind that modern industrial nation-states are rather different from the absolute monarchies and agrarian, tribal societies in Biblical times.

 

[Rhamiel]

The bottom line is that neither unfettered capitalism nor strict Marxism can find clear, comprehensive support in Scripture...though one could cherry-pick single passages that would support some concepts one could label "Marxist" or "capitalist."

We also must bear in mind that modern industrial nation-states are rather different from the absolute monarchies and agrarian, tribal societies in Biblical times.

well said,
the Christian idea of stewardship goes against the capitalist idea of absolute ownership

 

[peadar1987]

The biggest problem is with public opinion. Stalinism was atheistic, oppressive and totalitarian, therefore everyone assumes that socialism is atheistic, oppressive and totalitarian.

There have been several capitalist societies just as bad as Stalinist Russia over the years, military dictatorships and the like, but this is never used as evidence that capitalism is an inherently evil system.

True socialism, where the wealth is controlled and distributed fairly (not equally!) by the state, but where the officials of the state are still elected by the people, would be my preferred form of government.

That's not to say that I believe capitalism is evil, or doesn't work, I just think that socialism is a more just system.

 

[Vermithrax]

Capatalism funnels billions of dollars in to space exploration. More money than it would take to feed every Man Woman and Child who lives in that Capatilistic society.)

American "capatalism" funnels hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars into military spending. $636.6 billion next year. NASA's budget on the other hand was "only" $17.318 billion in 2008.

 

[Sphinx777]

American "capatalism" funnels hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars into military spending. $636.6 billion next year. NASA's budget on the other hand was "only" $17.318 billion in 2008.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) is an agency of the United States government, responsible for the nation's public space program. NASA was established by the National Aeronautics and Space Act on July 29, 1958 from its predecessor, the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA). NASA has led U.S. efforts for space exploration ever since, resulting in the Apollo missions to the Moon, the Skylab space station, and later the Space Shuttle. Currently NASA is supporting the International Space Station and developing new Ares I and IV launch vehicles.

In addition to the space program, it is also responsible for long-term civilian and military aerospace research. NASA Science is focused on better understanding Earth itself through the Earth Observing System, advancing heliophysics through the efforts of the Science Mission Directorate's Heliophysics Research Program, exploring bodies throughout the Solar System with advanced robotic missions such as New Horizons, and researching astrophysics topics, such as the Big Bang, through the Great Observatories and associated programs. Since February 2006 NASA's self-described mission statement is to "pioneer the future in space exploration, scientific discovery, and aeronautics research."

 

[marlowe007]

There was nothing inherently wrong with the socialism outlined in Sir Thomas More's Utopia for example, but socialism as an ideology has really become infiltrated and corrupted by the anti-religion, anti-morality and anti-family sentiments of Karl Marx. In fact, philosophers like Bakunin and Proudhon did not consider Marx to be a true socialist at all.

 

[Supreme]

Communism, in principal, is the best idea since sliced bread. However, the communist states in the world (USSR, China, North Korea, Laos) have been nothing but hostile, and run by insane men of incomparable evil. That said, I think Cuba does communism as properly as it can be done.

 

[Sphinx777]

​

 

[interpreter]

Good OP. Jesus was the first communist.

 

[seashale76]

I know that this is a touchy subject. I have beent thinking though that maybe Communism isn't as bad as people first think and how America propaganda plays it out.

I've just been watching WW2 propaganda films, I do believe that Communism fell in Russia. We all know Lenningrad, which before was called Stalingradf and there was a massive battle between USSR (or now Russia).

Despite the amounts of people that died and being forced to fight, Stalin was still recently voted Russia's third best ever leader.

A lot of Christian's are quick to dismiss that Communism is bad and that's it. Although if they really knew what happened between Amercia and the Indians, then well...

Is Communism that much worse than Captalism or a better way how is Captialism better than Communism?

My Grandad fought under Stalin in World War 2 and before he died stated that Communism was good and they got to live fairly well and was proud to serve his country under the USSR (he was stubborn to call it Russia).

DISCUSS....

I'd ask you to please expand your research and then come back and talk to us. I know more than a people who lived in Soviet Russia and they disagree with you- vehemently. Start here: Seventeen Moments

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

I've just been watching WW2 propaganda films, I do believe that Communism fell in Russia. We all know Lenningrad, which before was called Stalingradf and there was a massive battle between USSR (or now Russia).

No, Leningrad was St. Petersburg. Stalingrad was called Volgograd.