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So we were getting stuck on "necessity" versus "effects".
I think atheism causes certain views and philosophies to come about and thus atheists are statistically more likely to hold certain views.
However, there is nothing "required" of an atheist beyond lack of belief in god(s) (which is just the definition of atheism...). It seems a silly question though. Of course there is nothing required of atheism beyond the definition of atheism...just like there's nothing "required" of a Christian beyond the definition of Christian.
That is called "Prejustice" and there is a reason this behavior is villified.Just to be clear, I'm not trying to demonize anyone.
Labels, generalizations and stereotypes are actually really useful because as humans, we don't have time to get to know each person we interact with on a personal level. Evolution has taught us to make quick judgments about a person and we do it constantly all the time. Its also a way to categorize people so we can remember them.
How about this one?"Generalizations" and "stereotypes" are seen as a terrible thing it seems, especially on this forum. People get all upset if you stereotype them...even if the person doing the stereotyping is correct!
Atheist: "I'm an atheist."
Me: "Oh, so you're likely politically liberal because that's a fairly statistically reasonable assumption."
Atheist: "Don't stereotype me! Not all atheists are liberal you know!"
Me: "Oh my bad, so you're conservative?"
Atheist: "No...no I'm liberal."
You can't compare the two. With Christianity there is a book that tells them what to believe and what not to believe; in theory all you need to do is read the book. There is no such book for atheism.I don't know. I think labels are useful because they can give you a lot of information very quickly. If someone tells you they are a Christian, that gives you a lot of information about what they likely believe. You might be wrong, but at least it gives you some information as to where to place your reference point.
I think the same goes with atheism. And that's why I said there's more to atheism than just lack of belief. If someone tells me they are an atheist, that gives me a reference point and lot of information about what they are likely to agree or disagree with. Sure, I might be wrong and there is always nuance as each individual is unique.
I don't use the term "atheist" to discribe myself, I use the term "skeptic" but because many christians are also skeptics and they don't want to confuse; everybody wants to label me an atheist because I don't believe in God.And if someone doesn't want a label (and the associated stereotypes attached), then don't use the label.
I can only answer your question with another question: why don't you spend half your day discounting leprechauns, square circles, puppy-kittens, and intelligent Sarah Palins?
If it's implicit, how do you actually know they are doing this? This is why I am asking you for concrete evidence. If you don't have this then you are doing nothing more than speculating.I think they do, and I don't need to pull any no-true-atheist cards because it's mostly a matter of implicit behavior, not explicitly stated ideology. Few atheists (but not none) are going to be like, "well, yeah, atheism also means being reasonable," but plenty more atheists are going to associate themselves with rationalism, scientism, whatever without distinguishing this from their atheism.
A Theist is a person who believes in God/Gods. When you put an "A" in front of the word it means "non" example; typial vs atypical. Atypical simply means it is not typical. Atheist simply means not a theist.OOooooo. Prove it.
OOooooo. Prove it.
Well, to be fair, you're correct: atheism by itself means you don't believe in any higher deity.
That, however, supposes that you do not believe because you feel there is no reason to believe, because there is no evidence. This, in essence, presupposes a naturalist worldview
- that is to say that you only believe things for which there is evidence, which in essence negates any possibility for true altruistic behavior.
Then again, most atheists I know do adhere to some moral code or do hold some moral dogma, which is pretty nice to see.It's just as irrational as a belief in a higher deity (there is no "evidence" for objective morals). I guess you could say that atheism is often marketed as "rational" (naturalist) but most atheists are just as irrational as any religious folk are.
Ugh, I digress.Anyway, I hope you can understand what I was trying to get at, even if the text may not be very comprehensible.
I will bet I can list a lot of things you dont believe because you feel there is no reason to believe, or because there is no evidence; does this mean you have a naturalist worldview?Well, to be fair, you're correct: atheism by itself means you don't believe in any higher deity.
That, however, supposes that you do not believe because you feel there is no reason to believe, because there is no evidence. This, in essence, presupposes a naturalist worldview - that is to say that you only believe things for which there is evidence, which in essence negates any possibility for true altruistic behavior.
How do you equate living to a moral code to believing in a higher deity?Then again, most atheists I know do adhere to some moral code or do hold some moral dogma, which is pretty nice to see.It's just as irrational as a belief in a higher deity
True! Morals are subjective, not objective.(there is no "evidence" for objective morals)
Who markets atheism?I guess you could say that atheism is often marketed as "rational" (naturalist) but most atheists are just as irrational as any religious folk are.
I think I understood your point; I may not agree with everything, but I got your message none the lessUgh, I digress.Anyway, I hope you can understand what I was trying to get at, even if the text may not be very comprehensible.
Did you say you don't believe? In what?Ana the Ist said:The short answer....no. The longer answer is a bit more complicated than that. There's a tendency I've seen from christians on CF that is quite ridiculous. Every atheist who has been posting for more than a week knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's the tendency that some christians have to explain what they think the "atheist worldview" or "atheist belief system" or more incredibly the "atheist religion" entails. It's really quite astounding...so I'm going to help out all those christians who think they understand what those things are. They're myths. They're crutches. They are works of fiction that christians (and other religions, of course) have created in order to wrap their minds around something they don't understand...namely atheism. I'm going to let all of you know a little secret right now, coming straight from the mouth of an "insider" who's been an atheist since before he was thirteen...there is no "atheist worldview". None. It doesn't exist. In fact, and you may want to sit down for this part, the label "atheist" itself is almost entirely meaningless. "Atheist" describes exactly one thing about me...and it's something that I don't believe. Think on that for a moment. It tells you nothing about what I do believe, it just tells you that I don't believe in god...that's all. Could you imagine if we had labels for everything you don't believe in? A-unicornist, a-vampirest, a-boogeymanist and so-on and so-on. We would end up with countless labels that we could stick to anyone and it wouldn't really tell you anything about them. Don't believe me? I could drop the label atheist right now and it wouldn't affect the way I perceive myself at all. I could never use the term "atheist" again and it wouldn't change a thing about me. If someone were to ask, "Do you believe in god?" or some similar question I could simply answer "no" and I haven't lost anything even though I don't identify as an atheist anymore. That's not really something you can do as a christian or muslim or jew because so many other beliefs and views and traditions are attached to the labels you have for your religion. Nothing is attached to atheism though...nothing. I know about now some of you are saying, "What about humanism/naturalism/rationalism/communism/secularism/empiricism/etc/etc....?" What about them? I honestly couldn't define any of those terms if you put a gun to my head. I have a few vague notions of a few of them...but I don't ascribe to any of those beliefs entirely...nor do I really care. None of them have anything to do with atheism. None of them have anything to do with my lack of belief in god. I hope this clears up some things for those of you whom I keep seeing make the mistake of attaching other beliefs to atheism. You're wrong and you should stop. If in the future I see you doing this, I will be linking you to this thread and I would encourage any atheists to do the same. For the sake of discussion, I'll always consider the possibility that I'm wrong. If you feel this OP is mistaken somehow, and that the answer to the title is "yes"....please explain. I would love to see it. Thanks for reading.
The issue is when Christians speak of one definitive, singular Atheist Worldview.
There simply isn't one to speak of.
And do you think there is one for Christians? No group of millions of people is going to have "one definitive, singular" worldview, right?
So, I ask you, what do you think purpose of the label is? For example, you used the word "Christian" in your quote above...why did you use that label there. Why was it a useful word choice in that sentence? What do you mean by "Christian"?
Alternatively it may simply refer to a simple commonality. In the case of atheism, which is just one point and one only, that happens by default.Because a label, by its very nature, must generalize and simplify a complex human being down to something easier to swallow. Labels are the only way we can communicate with each other.
An atheist is someone who lacks belief in deities.How would you prefer the word "atheist" to be used? Does the label have a use? How could someone use it in a sentence that wouldn't bug you?
Christians should have a world view that is in line with what is written in the bible. The fact that their views differ from person to person is shortcoming of the religionAnd do you think there is one for Christians?
No group of millions of people is going to have "one definitive, singular" worldview, right?
Unfortunately a label is often used as a means of prejudging someone without going through the trouble of getting to know them and gaining accurate information on themSo, I ask you, what do you think purpose of the label is?
You seem to be forgetting, Christians have a book called the Bible that tells what Christians are supposed to believe. Atheists dont have such a bookFor example, you used the word "Christian" in your quote above why did you use that label there. Why was it a useful word choice in that sentence? What do you mean by "Christian"?
As a default position. A means of describing what you are not, rather than what you areHow would you prefer the word "atheist" to be used? Does the label have a use? How could someone use it in a sentence that wouldn't bug you?
how many atheists reject belief in God but nonetheless believe in ghosts, extrasensory perception, or an afterlife? Almost none.
For example, if someone tells me they are an atheist, I could probably make the reasonable assumption that they:
-reject supernatural claims and believe in only natural phenomena as explanations
-believe in secular government
-do not highly value any religious texts
-are politically liberal or left-leaning
-are pro-choice
-value higher education
-value the scientific method
-believe that we make our own purpose
-believe morality is not objective but is either the product of evolution or is ultimately relativistic
-believe in evolution as a meta-narrative to how we came to be human
-do not believe in a soul
-etc.
that is to say that you only believe things for which there is evidence, which in essence negates any possibility for true altruistic behavior.
there is no "evidence" for objective morals)
The short answer....no.
The longer answer is a bit more complicated than that. There's a tendency I've seen from christians on CF that is quite ridiculous. Every atheist who has been posting for more than a week knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's the tendency that some christians have to explain what they think the "atheist worldview" or "atheist belief system" or more incredibly the "atheist religion" entails. It's really quite astounding...so I'm going to help out all those christians who think they understand what those things are.
They're myths. They're crutches. They are works of fiction that christians (and other religions, of course) have created in order to wrap their minds around something they don't understand...namely atheism. I'm going to let all of you know a little secret right now, coming straight from the mouth of an "insider" who's been an atheist since before he was thirteen...there is no "atheist worldview". None. It doesn't exist. In fact, and you may want to sit down for this part, the label "atheist" itself is almost entirely meaningless. "Atheist" describes exactly one thing about me...and it's something that I don't believe. Think on that for a moment. It tells you nothing about what I do believe, it just tells you that I don't believe in god...that's all. Could you imagine if we had labels for everything you don't believe in? A-unicornist, a-vampirest, a-boogeymanist and so-on and so-on. We would end up with countless labels that we could stick to anyone and it wouldn't really tell you anything about them.
Don't believe me? I could drop the label atheist right now and it wouldn't affect the way I perceive myself at all. I could never use the term "atheist" again and it wouldn't change a thing about me. If someone were to ask, "Do you believe in god?" or some similar question I could simply answer "no" and I haven't lost anything even though I don't identify as an atheist anymore. That's not really something you can do as a christian or muslim or jew because so many other beliefs and views and traditions are attached to the labels you have for your religion. Nothing is attached to atheism though...nothing.
I know about now some of you are saying, "What about humanism/naturalism/rationalism/communism/secularism/empiricism/etc/etc....?" What about them? I honestly couldn't define any of those terms if you put a gun to my head. I have a few vague notions of a few of them...but I don't ascribe to any of those beliefs entirely...nor do I really care. None of them have anything to do with atheism. None of them have anything to do with my lack of belief in god.
I hope this clears up some things for those of you whom I keep seeing make the mistake of attaching other beliefs to atheism. You're wrong and you should stop. If in the future I see you doing this, I will be linking you to this thread and I would encourage any atheists to do the same.
For the sake of discussion, I'll always consider the possibility that I'm wrong. If you feel this OP is mistaken somehow, and that the answer to the title is "yes"....please explain. I would love to see it. Thanks for reading.
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