Is there any support for the Investigate Judgment from Ellen White's visions?

[woobadooba]

lol.... this is gonna be interesting....

For some reason I get the feeling that he has me on ignore.

I am really interested though, in seeing what he is going to say.

 

[woobadooba]

just as i had suspected, Eugene has put me on ignore

must have control of everything I suppose

 

[sentipente]

just as i had suspected, Eugene has put me on ignore

must have control of everything I suppose

Now, why would he put you on ignore?

 

[daro2096]

God conducts a judgment not for His benefit but for the angels and the unfallen beings. God says here are the books of the humans I want to bring to heaven. The angels and unfallen beings check the books out and they confirm that God has got it right, that these humans are safe to bring to heaven.

See Daniel chapter 7 for the judgment scene in heaven.

 

[StormyOne]

God conducts a judgment not for His benefit but for the angels and the unfallen beings. God says here are the books of the humans I want to bring to heaven. The angels and unfallen beings check the books out and they confirm that God has got it right, that these humans are safe to bring to heaven.

See Daniel chapter 7 for the judgment scene in heaven.

speculative.... the assumption is that the "unfallen" worlds are clueless.... you have no way of knowing what God has shared with them given they are "unfallen."

 

[daro2096]

speculative.... the assumption is that the "unfallen" worlds are clueless.... you have no way of knowing what God has shared with them given they are "unfallen."

Well then I suppose you could also say that Ellen White was speculating when she wrote the first few chapters of Patriarchs and Prophets then?

 

[StormyOne]

Well then I suppose you could also say that Ellen White was speculating when she wrote the first few chapters of Patriarchs and Prophets then?

she may or may not have been... she does add things to the bible narrative where the bible is silent.... to do that is disconcerting at best.....

 

[Bourbaki]

God conducts a judgment not for His benefit but for the angels and the unfallen beings.

Sure, ultimately, everything that God does is for the good of the whole universe.

God says here are the books of the humans I want to bring to heaven. The angels and unfallen beings check the books out and they confirm that God has got it right, that these humans are safe to bring to heaven.

See Daniel chapter 7 for the judgment scene in heaven.

The problem with your unquestioning belief in what the Adventist leadership has told you is a fundamental doctrine is the complete lack of Bible and Spirit of prophecy support for what you've just asserted.

Daniel 7:9-10 says:

9 “ I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.

This Scripture, like the whole chapter, says nothing about beings in that vast assembly looking over God's shoulder.

 

[daro2096]

Sure, ultimately, everything that God does is for the good of the whole universe.



The problem with your unquestioning belief in what the Adventist leadership has told you is a fundamental doctrine is the complete lack of Bible and Spirit of prophecy support for what you've just asserted.

Daniel 7:9-10 says:

9 “ I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.

This Scripture, like the whole chapter, says nothing about beings in that vast assembly looking over God's shoulder.

Who do you think the beings ministring to God are and the beings standing before God?

 

[Bourbaki]

Who do you think the beings ministering to God are and the beings standing before God?

I believe that they're the heavenly council, the same ones that were assembled around the throne of God when Christ ascended to heaven immediately after His resurrection.

All heaven was waiting to welcome the Saviour to the celestial courts. As He ascended, He led the way, and the multitude of captives set free at His resurrection followed. The heavenly host, with shouts and acclamations of praise and celestial song, attended the joyous train.

As they drew near to the city of God, the challenge is given by the escorting angels, —

"Lift up your heads, O ye gates;
And be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors;
And the King of glory shall come in."
​

Joyfully the waiting sentinels respond, —

"Who is this King of glory?"
​

This they say, not because they know not who He is, but because they would hear the answer of exalted praise, —

"The Lord strong and mighty,
The Lord mighty in battle!
Lift up your heads, O ye gates;
Even lift them up, ye everlasting doors;
And the King of glory shall come in."
​

Again is heard the challenge, "Who is this King of glory?" for the angels never weary of hearing His name exalted. The escorting angels make reply, —

"The Lord of hosts;
He is the King of glory." Ps. 24:7-10.
​

Then the portals of the city of God are opened wide, and the angelic throng sweep through the gates amid a burst of rapturous music.

There is the throne, and around it the rainbow of promise. There are cherubim and seraphim. The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are assembled. The heavenly council before which Lucifer had accused God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms over which Satan had thought to establish his dominion, —all are there to welcome the Redeemer. They are eager to celebrate His triumph and to glorify their King. —Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages, pp. 833-834.

My question to you is what evidence is there that this heavenly council is judging God? I see their function more like court reporters and witnesses of whatever God decrees.

 

[daro2096]

I believe that they're the heavenly council, the same ones that were assembled around the throne of God when Christ ascended to heaven immediately after His resurrection.

All heaven was waiting to welcome the Saviour to the celestial courts. As He ascended, He led the way, and the multitude of captives set free at His resurrection followed. The heavenly host, with shouts and acclamations of praise and celestial song, attended the joyous train.

As they drew near to the city of God, the challenge is given by the escorting angels, —

"Lift up your heads, O ye gates; ​

And be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; ​

And the King of glory shall come in."​

Joyfully the waiting sentinels respond, —

"Who is this King of glory?"​

This they say, not because they know not who He is, but because they would hear the answer of exalted praise, —

"The Lord strong and mighty, ​

The Lord mighty in battle! ​

Lift up your heads, O ye gates; ​

Even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; ​

And the King of glory shall come in."​

Again is heard the challenge, "Who is this King of glory?" for the angels never weary of hearing His name exalted. The escorting angels make reply, —

"The Lord of hosts; ​

He is the King of glory." Ps. 24:7-10.​

Then the portals of the city of God are opened wide, and the angelic throng sweep through the gates amid a burst of rapturous music.

There is the throne, and around it the rainbow of promise. There are cherubim and seraphim. The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are assembled. The heavenly council before which Lucifer had accused God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms over which Satan had thought to establish his dominion, —all are there to welcome the Redeemer. They are eager to celebrate His triumph and to glorify their King. —Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages, pp. 833-834.

My question to you is what evidence is there that this heavenly council is judging God? I see their function more like court reporters and witnesses of whatever God decrees.

Jesus accended to heaven in 31AD. The judgment didn't begin until 1844. Your quote from Ellen White has nothing to do with the pre-advent judgment.

Those being standing before God are reviewing the books just like the saints will review the books during the 1000 years. God is on trial here. Satan has been making his accusations with against him for the past 6000 years. God opens up the books to the whole universe.

Next you will be telling me the saints don't go over God's judgments next?

For futher reading please read The Great Controversy pgs 352, 353, 422-429, 436, 479-491.

 

[Bourbaki]

Jesus ascended to heaven in 31AD. The judgment didn't begin until 1844. Your quote from Ellen White has nothing to do with the pre-advent judgment.

I didn't give a date for Christ's ascension. I didn't deny that the final judgment began in 1844. You asked me about the beings present in that vast assembly around the throne. I gave you a straightforward answer.

I believe that they're the heavenly council, the same ones that were assembled around the throne of God when Christ ascended to heaven immediately after His resurrection.

I pointed to Ellen White's description:

There are cherubim and seraphim. The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are assembled. The heavenly council before which Lucifer had accused God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms over which Satan had thought to establish his dominion, —all are there.

I'm not denying the possibility that the members of the heavenly council work on rotating shifts or are there to fulfill their jury duty obligations. I simply identified who they are as a general answer in response to your direct question.

Those being standing before God are reviewing the books

Daniel 7:10 says "A thousand thousands ministered to Him." From your point of view, since these beings are serving God, then they must be God's defense attorneys.

I don't know what to say if you believe that these are counselors comforting God through His legal troubles. Or do you think they are there to help God with suggestions on how He should answer accusations?

"Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him." These you say are judging God and looking through His books. Your interpretation of this text is backwards. To stand before God in Scripture never means that you are judging God but that He is judging you (Romans 14:10, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:12) or is issuing commands (2 Chronicles 18:18-21).

God is on trial here.

You most certainly didn't prove it by pointing to a specific detail in the text itself.

Satan has been making his accusations with against him for the past 6000 years.

And it was the Cross (and not 1844) that answered those accusations, as Ellen White taught over and over again (see the chapter, ‘It is Finished’ in The Desire of Ages).

God opens up the books to the whole universe.

The problem with your very imaginative interpretation is that you are insisting on believing the fantasy interpretation that the Adventist leadership has told you is there, which is obviously not present in the text.

Why is the central question of this thread such a nontrivial request? I've made answering my query as easy as possible. I asked that the 24th fundamental belief of the Adventists be proven from the revelations of Ellen G. White. And you failed miserably. I now make another request. Prove to me that all the sinless beings of the universe believe that what is written in God's books is trustworthy but that God's judgment is not. You're not going to find it in the Bible so please use Sister White.