Is There Any Scriptural Backing For Calling Someone An Intercessor?

[KingZzub]

Not sure what you mean, Arbiter. Are you going to give me a Biblical case for intercession or not? Every time I want this discussion to be about the Bible I get "I am older than you", "pastors are hardly in the Bible" and now, "prophecy as a ministry is not in the Bible"...

The gift of prophesy is clearly given as a gift in 1 Cor. 12.28 and Romans 12.

The office of prophet is clearly stated as an office in Ephesians 4.

If you read the book of Acts, you find there are prophets (Acts 13.1-3 and Agabus), and people who prophesied such as the daughters of Philip (Acts 20, I think). Intercessors and the gift of intercession are not mentioned in the gospels, not seen in Acts and not taught about in the epistles.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[ARBITER01]

Not sure what you mean, Arbiter. Are you going to give me a Biblical case for intercession or not? Every time I want this discussion to be about the Bible I get "I am older than you", "pastors are hardly in the Bible" and now, "prophecy as a ministry is not in the Bible"...

The gift of prophesy is clearly given as a gift in 1 Cor. 12.28 and Romans 12.

The office of prophet is clearly stated as an office in Ephesians 4.

If you read the book of Acts, you find there are prophets (Acts 13.1-3 and Agabus), and people who prophesied such as the daughters of Philip (Acts 20, I think). Intercessors and the gift of intercession are not mentioned in the gospels, not seen in Acts and not taught about in the epistles.

Cheers,
Ben

All I'm wanting you to do is provide scripture that lists the gift of prophecy as a ministry.

 

[KingZzub]

What do you mean by a ministry? If you explain the question appropriately I will be able to give you an answer.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[ARBITER01]

Here is a list of ministries from Paul,..

1Co 12:28 And God has set certain in the assembly: first, apostles; secondly, prophets; thirdly, teachers; then miraculous powers; then gifts of healings; helps; governments; kinds of tongues.

Notice the highlighted spiritual gifts included in this list, they are considered ministries "in the assembly."

Where is the gift of prophecy listed as a ministry? Can you find it?

 

[KingZzub]

Why are these considered ministries exactly?

 

[ARBITER01]

Why are these considered ministries exactly?

Is an apostle a ministry?

You want to make this just as hard as it can possibly be instead of just answering the question right?

 

[ARBITER01]

While Z is thinking up more questions to ask to somehow circumvent my question to him, here is the answer,..

- There is no listed prophecy ministry in scripture.

There is plenty of teaching from Paul about the proper use of prophecy within the church, but no actual listed ministry tied to the gift of prophecy.

The reason I asked him was this, he is dogmatically demanding scripture that identifies a position associated with a person operating in intercessory prayer or else it is not valid according to him,... well I want the same thing from him with prophecy or else it is not valid to me,... as well as praise and worship, and any other ministry we can't find listed in our bibles.

If he can be dogmatic about it, so can I.

 

[KingZzub]

Arbiter,

I do not mind having a discussion with you from the Word of God. Such discussions are useful and iron sharpens iron.

I do not mind you calling me to task for anything I have said.

However, I am not prepared to have a discussion with you based on what you think my motivation is.

I am not trying to avoid answering the question, I am trying to understand the question.

You trying to compare prophesying with intercession is not applicable.

Paul gives clear instructions on when to prophecy. Are there clear guidelines for intercession.

The book of Acts mentions people who prophecy. Are there intercessors or people who intercede in Acts? Is such a thing ever found?

In Acts 2, we know that when the Spirit comes people prophecy. Is intercession prophecied about?

The Bible does actually talk about prophecy as a ministry in Romans 12:


4For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. 6Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

So clearly, your comparison is wrong. Now you have finally shown me what the question was, I have provided an accurate and Biblical answer as to why you cannot compare the two.

I am not trying to be dogmatic, I am trying to ensure that Christians do not waste time doing something that is just not in the Bible and presumptively take on titles which are not Scriptural.

Blessings,
Ben

 

[ARBITER01]

Arbiter,

I do not mind having a discussion with you from the Word of God. Such discussions are useful and iron sharpens iron.

I do not mind you calling me to task for anything I have said.

However, I am not prepared to have a discussion with you based on what you think my motivation is.

I am not trying to avoid answering the question, I am trying to understand the question.

You trying to compare prophesying with intercession is not applicable.

Paul gives clear instructions on when to prophecy. Are there clear guidelines for intercession.

The book of Acts mentions people who prophecy. Are there intercessors or people who intercede in Acts? Is such a thing ever found?

In Acts 2, we know that when the Spirit comes people prophecy. Is intercession prophecied about?

The Bible does actually talk about prophecy as a ministry in Romans 12:


4For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. 6Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

So clearly, your comparison is wrong. Now you have finally shown me what the question was, I have provided an accurate and Biblical answer as to why you cannot compare the two.

I am not trying to be dogmatic, I am trying to ensure that Christians do not waste time doing something that is just not in the Bible and presumptively take on titles which are not Scriptural.

Blessings,
Ben

There is no comparison between intercession and prophecy promoted here, I was wanting a listed ministry associated with it, and there is none in scripture.

You had to refer to a "teaching" about prophecy just like intercession is also taught in scripture. You just did the same thing we did, thank you.

 

[MadameGuyon]

Here is an area where the church operates in the same way,..

And the account has Peter broken out of the church by an angel.

That is a very specific example of intercessory prayer by the body of Christ. It goes beyond the idea that prayer is just individualistic or a simple communication with GOD.

I love this scripture in the OT.....


Exodus 17:11
And so it was, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed; and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. 12 But Moses’ hands became heavy; so they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it. And Aaron and Hur supported his hands, one on one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. 13 So Joshua defeated Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.


I see in this picture above one of the things that is accomplished in intercessions, a support or help to those on the frontlines.

I often find myself praying for those out there on the frontlines of government, business, education, etc, who are being a voice of truth and righteousness in the land....that God would strengthen them and give them boldness to speak and the platform to enfluence their particular field of endeavor.

 

[ARBITER01]

I love this scripture in the OT.....


Exodus 17:11
And so it was, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed; and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. 12 But Moses’ hands became heavy; so they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it. And Aaron and Hur supported his hands, one on one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. 13 So Joshua defeated Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.


I see in this picture above one of the things that is accomplished in intercessions, a support or help to those on the frontlines.

I often find myself praying for those out there on the frontlines of government, business, education, etc, who are being a voice of truth and righteousness in the land....that God would strengthen them and give them boldness to speak and the platform to enfluence their particular field of endeavor.

Very nice example. Raising hands during prayer is very powerful. Prayer of this nature extends out beyond just our immediate vicinity.

 

[KingZzub]

I think that you need to realize that the OT is different from the NT!

In the OT God was looking for a man to stand in the gap, in the NT Jesus has already stood in the gap!

 

[KingZzub]

There is no comparison between intercession and prophecy promoted here, I was wanting a listed ministry associated with it, and there is none in scripture.

You had to refer to a "teaching" about prophecy just like intercession is also taught in scripture. You just did the same thing we did, thank you.

I just showed you a Bible passage calling prophecy an office.

Do the same for intercession and I will agree with you!

 

[MadameGuyon]

Very nice example. Raising hands during prayer is very powerful. Prayer of this nature extends out beyond just our immediate vicinity.

Here is another 'type' in scripture: 'Watches'... a military term.

My best friend does this type of thing in prayer. She sees what the enemy is coming to do before he does it.

A couple of years ago, she saw as she was praying, her daughter-in-law in a horrible auto accident which would not likely have any survivors. She prayed against it etc. That week, her daughter-in-law, who is diabetic, was driving to work when she went into a diabetic seizure. She crashed her car, totaling it, but left the scene very shaken but unharmed.

My friend, when she first started out in this type of prayer work, didn't know what to do with the things that she saw. She learned over time, what God wanted her to do with them, and is still learning.

She serves more in this 'watch' kind of prayer, while I serve more in the 'hold up the arms' kind of prayer. One of the signs of a prayer 'watcher' is that the Lord will often awaken them at 3 am or have them stay up all night etc.


Lamentations 2:19
" Arise, cry out in the night, At the beginning of the watches; Pour out your heart like water before the face of the Lord. Lift your hands toward Him For the life of your young children, Who faint from hunger at the head of every street."
Revelation 16:15
"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."

Exodus 14:24
Now it came to pass, in the morning watch, that the LORD looked down upon the army of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and cloud, and He troubled the army of the Egyptians.

Judges 7:19
So Gideon and the hundred men who were with him came to the outpost of the camp at the beginning of the middle watch, just as they had posted the watch; and they blew the trumpets and broke the pitchers that were in their hands.

1 Samuel 11:11
So it was, on the next day, that Saul put the people in three companies; and they came into the midst of the camp in the morning watch, and killed Ammonites until the heat of the day. And it happened that those who survived were scattered, so that no two of them were left together.

2 Samuel 13:33-35 (in Context) 2 Samuel 13 (Whole Chapter) 2 Samuel 18:24
Now David was sitting between the two gates. And the watchman went up to the roof over the gate, to the wall, lifted his eyes and looked, and there was a man, running alone.

2 Samuel 18:25
Then the watchman cried out and told the king. And the king said, "If he is alone, there is news in his mouth." And he came rapidly and drew near.

2 Samuel 18:26
Then the watchman saw another man running, and the watchman called to the gatekeeper and said, "There is another man, running alone!" And the king said, "He also brings news."
2 Samuel 18:27
So the watchman said, "I think the running of the first is like the running of Ahimaaz the son of Zadok." And the king said, "He is a good man, and comes with good news."
1 Kings 20:33

2 Kings 9:17
Now a watchman stood on the tower in Jezreel, and he saw the company of Jehu as he came, and said, "I see a company of men." And Joram said, "Get a horseman and send him to meet them, and let him say, ‘Is it peace?’"

2 Kings 9:18
So the horseman went to meet him, and said, "Thus says the king: ‘Is it peace?’" And Jehu said, "What have you to do with peace? Turn around and follow me." So the watchman reported, saying, "The messenger went to them, but is not coming back."
2 Kings 9:20
So the watchman reported, saying, "He went up to them and is not coming back; and the driving is like the driving of Jehu the son of Nimshi, for he drives furiously!"
2 Kings 11:5
Then he commanded them, saying, "This is what you shall do: One-third of you who come on duty on the Sabbath shall be keeping watch over the king’s house,

2 Kings 11:6
one-third shall be at the gate of Sur, and one-third at the gate behind the escorts. You shall keep the watch of the house, lest it be broken down.
2 Kings 11:7
The two contingents of you who go off duty on the Sabbath shall keep the watch of the house of the LORD for the king.

And many, many more.

 

[KingZzub]

2 Samuel 13:34
Then Absalom fled. And the young man who was keeping watch lifted his eyes and looked, and there, many people were coming from the road on the hillside behind him.

Oh come on, you are not even trying to read the Scripture in context!

Listen, I thoroughly agree with what your friends' experience was. The gift of word of wisdom is Biblical, praying for other people is Biblical, and the testimony is positive. But let's base what we do on the Bible, not our ideas or Scriptures ripped out of context as per above.

Don't think staying up all night to pray should be a regular occurence: certainly not an often thing.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[MadameGuyon]

Here is another 'type' in scripture: 'Watches'... a military term.

Here's some from the New Testament:

Matthew 14:25
Now in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went to them, walking on the sea.


Matthew 24:42
Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.


Matthew 24:43
But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.


Matthew 26:38
Then He said to them, “My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Stay here and watch with Me.”
He was definately talking about prayer, here.


Matthew 26:40
Then He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, “What! Could you not watch with Me one hour?

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

Mark 6:48
Then He saw them straining at rowing, for the wind was against them. Now about the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea, and would have passed them by.


Mark 13:33
Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.
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Mark 13:34
It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch.

Mark 13:35
Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning—

Mark 13:37
And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”

Mark 14:34
Then He said to them, “My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Stay here and watch.”

Mark 14:37
Then He came and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, “Simon, are you sleeping? Could you not watch one hour?

Mark 14:38
Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

Luke 2:8
[ Glory in the Highest ] Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night.
We see here a watching over sheep. Does not the flock of God need watching over?


Luke 12:37
Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them.

Luke 12:38
And if he should come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

Luke 12:39
But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.

Luke 21:36
Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”


Acts 20:31
Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

1 Corinthians 16:13
Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong.

Ephesians 6:18
praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

1 Thessalonians 5:6
Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.

2 Timothy 4:5
But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

1 Peter 4:7
[ Serving for God’s Glory ] But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers.

Revelation 3:2
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.

Revelation 3:3
Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

Revelation 16:15
“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

 

[ARBITER01]

I just showed you a Bible passage calling prophecy an office.

Do the same for intercession and I will agree with you!

Oh no you didn't my friend, you tried to connect dots with a preceding verse, but prophecy is never listed as a ministry in our bible, so we have to understand that only by the teaching inherit from Paul.

Nice try, but you did nothing more than what we are doing when we show the teaching on it in the scriptures.

 

[ARBITER01]

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Here's some from the New Testament:

Yes the "watching" aspect is in the same understanding as the OT definition.

 

[ARBITER01]

Here is another 'type' in scripture: 'Watches'... a military term.

My best friend does this type of thing in prayer. She sees what the enemy is coming to do before he does it.

A couple of years ago, she saw as she was praying, her daughter-in-law in a horrible auto accident which would not likely have any survivors. She prayed against it etc. That week, her daughter-in-law, who is diabetic, was driving to work when she went into a diabetic seizure. She crashed her car, totaling it, but left the scene very shaken but unharmed.

My friend, when she first started out in this type of prayer work, didn't know what to do with the things that she saw. She learned over time, what God wanted her to do with them, and is still learning.

She serves more in this 'watch' kind of prayer, while I serve more in the 'hold up the arms' kind of prayer. One of the signs of a prayer 'watcher' is that the Lord will often awaken them at 3 am or have them stay up all night etc.

There has been quite a few times where GOD has used me in this sort of life or death type prayer at nights, although I am never really privy to the incident I'm praying for, I just follow through on the leading.

For me, it is a burden upon my heart that has to be lifted when I'm praying like this.

 

[MadameGuyon]

2 Samuel 13:34
Then Absalom fled. And the young man who was keeping watch lifted his eyes and looked, and there, many people were coming from the road on the hillside behind him.

Oh come on, you are not even trying to read the Scripture in context!

Listen, I thoroughly agree with what your friends' experience was. The gift of word of wisdom is Biblical, praying for other people is Biblical, and the testimony is positive. But let's base what we do on the Bible, not our ideas or Scriptures ripped out of context as per above.

Don't think staying up all night to pray should be a regular occurence: certainly not an often thing.

Cheers,
Ben

Yeah, I kinda agree that this one in 2 Samuel 13:34 isn't the best.