Is there any hope for peace without settling the issue of Jerusalem?

[archangelmichael]

I withdraw the question.

Michael

 

[New_Wineskin]

Even if the majority of line items were resolved in any of the above agreements, without the issue of Jerusalem being resolved, it is all for nothing.

Agree of disagree?

Michael

Disagree . Given that Egypt has been more or less peaceful since the 1978 accords , progress has been shown . If the majority of line items were resolved , it would show that time may pay off as that would show that agreements can be made .

 

[ParsonJefferson]

My belief is that there will never be peace in Jerusalem, just like there will never be peace in most mid-East regions.

And there's one reason: Lack of forgiveness.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Let me first of all assume you're only speaking of peace in the Middle East. Because I can totally foresee peace in the South China Sea without settling the Jerusalem issue.

And no, I don't think there can be peace without resolving the issue. There have been great strides forward- such as the diplomatic recognition of Israel by Egypt and the 1993 Oslo Accords that eventually allowed for an autonomous Palestinian Authority- but the violence won't end until the issue of Jerusalem is settled, among other things.

 

[dimwhitt]

the issue of jerusalem is what is at the center of the last days

 

[billwald]

There is no hope of universal peace until Jesus returns or the space aliens land and take over.

Best thing that could happen for peace would be for Jerusalem to be nuked. If radioactive glass then if God cares it will be up to him to do the building.

 

[Solidlyhere]

I think the real question is: Even if the Jerusalem issue was decided, would the Arabs ever allow the Jews to live in peace?

Long before 1967, the Arabs have been trying to wipe Israel off the map.
In 1964 (when the Arabs HAD Jerusalem, and the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip), Yasser Arafat started the PLO, with the main purpose of destroying the State of Israel.
And, in 1948, its predecessors were in action.
The PLO is only one of the anti-Israel organizations.

 

[SummaScriptura]

I think the real question is: Even if the Jerusalem issue was decided, would the Arabs ever allow the Jews to live in peace?

Long before 1967, the Arabs have been trying to wipe Israel off the map.
In 1964 (when the Arabs HAD Jerusalem, and the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip), Yasser Arafat started the PLO, with the main purpose of destroying the State of Israel.
And, in 1948, its predecessors were in action.
The PLO is only one of the anti-Israel organizations.

That's true. If Israel gives back Jerusalem they'll have a pro-fundy Islamic government there in no time. They should not give it back.

That being said, the existence of Israel today in a state of unbelief is due to God's hand. Who are we to give $ to Israel with strings attached and telling them what policies are in their best interest.

I recommend the amoral government of my country (US) stop giving money and stop telling them what to do. We can sit back, and let God do His bit and get outta the way.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I think the real question is: Even if the Jerusalem issue was decided, would the Arabs ever allow the Jews to live in peace?

Long before 1967, the Arabs have been trying to wipe Israel off the map.
In 1964 (when the Arabs HAD Jerusalem, and the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip), Yasser Arafat started the PLO, with the main purpose of destroying the State of Israel.
And, in 1948, its predecessors were in action.
The PLO is only one of the anti-Israel organizations.

Actually they both lived quite peacibly beside each other when the area was under the mandate of the British Empire from World War I until the 1948 UN particion. There were some problems on both sides, but nothing like the intifada.

 

[SummaScriptura]

Actually they both lived quite peacibly beside each other when the area was under the mandate of the British Empire from World War I until the 1948 UN particion. There were some problems on both sides, but nothing like the intifada.

Not quite right. Islam's Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was pretty tight with the Nazi's. At his trial Eichmann stated the Grand Mufti provided advice in planning the extermination of the Jews in Europe.

There's a lot more here:
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php

 

[Tonks]

This is being moved from General Theology to Christian Current Affairs.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Not quite right. Islam's Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was pretty tight with the Nazi's. At his trial Eichmann stated the Grand Mufti provided advice in planning the extermination of the Jews in Europe.

There's a lot more here:
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php

Oh I'm very well aware of the evils of Grand Mufti Husseini.

But most of his violent actions took place in the Balkans, were he raised three units of Albanian SS and went on a slaughter-campaign.

Oh and for all who didn't know this, Saddam Hussein was raised by his paternal uncle, who was in turn a soldier under said Mufti. I do believe there was some relation to Yassir Arafat, too.

 

[MezzaMorta]

Not quite right. Islam's Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was pretty tight with the Nazi's. At his trial Eichmann stated the Grand Mufti provided advice in planning the extermination of the Jews in Europe.

There's a lot more here:
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php

Zionist groups also co-operated with the Nazis, both because both the Nazis and Zionists wanted Jews out of Europe and because the Zionists wanted help driving the British from Palestine.

 

[yod]

As the world observes the anniversary of the 1967 Six Day War between Israel and three Arab nations, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan, the fate of Jerusalem still hangs in the balance.

Last week, many wrote of their opinions of who should control Jerusalem. Of the three monotheistic religions there were many opinions for each of the three obtaining control.

The answers all led to the next obvious question. If there is a 40 year history, many will argue longer, of a family squabble over the status of Jerusalem, is there any sense in holding a never ending sequence of peace talks with out solving the Jerusalem issue first?

From the Camp David accords of 1978 and 2000 to the Oslo Agreement and the Road Map of 2003, all have failed and taken vast amounts of time and dollars with no resolution in sight.

Even if the majority of line items were resolved in any of the above agreements, without the issue of Jerusalem being resolved, it is all for nothing.

Agree of disagree?


Michael

had an interesting conversation yesterday with an arab Eygptian coptic christian.

His perspective was quite fascinating..


His take is that everyone in the middle east is trying to be the biggest "victim" for the PR of it.

He has intimate knowledge of islam growing up in Cairo under it's intimidation and COMPLETELY supports the American invasion of Iraq because he understands this isn't a war against Iraqis but rather the battleground for a war against the racist hatred of islam....note that I didn't say muslims.

He is a lawyer who has aspirations of being appointed a judge in the state he now lives (in the USA) so he can not state his views publicly for fear of being labeled by both political parties.

As a lawyer and an arab, he is often confronted by liberal jewish lawyers who assuage themselves with anti-Israel statements. He could not disagree with these view more! Israeli arabs have the highest standard of living in the middle east and enjoy freedoms that other arabs of the world can only dream of.

His view, based on living over 30 years as an arab christian in Eygpt, is that the underlying problem is Islam and what it teaches ignorant uneducated people.

He also thinks that the apocrophic vision of Revelation and the return of Jesus can not come in times of peace so Islam is satan's opposition to that peace...and necessary for the biblical fulfillment of the end times scenario.

 

[yod]

Oh I'm very well aware of the evils of Grand Mufti Husseini.

But most of his violent actions took place in the Balkans, were he raised three units of Albanian SS and went on a slaughter-campaign.

That's right! The war in Kosova during the 90s has connections to al-Husseini's relationship to Hitler...just as the current wars of the middle east are rooted in that evil coalition also.

 

[archangelmichael]

He also thinks that the apocrophic vision of Revelation and the return of Jesus can not come in times of peace so Islam is satan's opposition to that peace...and necessary for the biblical fulfillment of the end times scenario.

Bingo!
Right on the money and all three of these monotheistic religions have apocalyptic end time scenarios affiliated with their beliefs.
The world is definitely playing with fire, in the tinderbox!

http://anewknighthood.blogspot.com/
Michael

 

[MezzaMorta]

[FONT=&quot] Israeli arabs have the highest standard of living in the middle east and enjoy freedoms that other arabs of the world can only dream of.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Totally untrue on both fronts. Many Arab nations have higher standards of living than Israel, especially for Arabs. Israeli Arabs have a significantly lower standard of living in Israel than white Europeans. They are discriminated against in both law and practice, they earn lower wages for the same work, are marginalized by European Israeli society. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The only people in Israel who are treated worse than Israeli Arabs are Ethiopian Jews who came to Israel in the 80’s and are treated as Blacks were in the US in the 40’s by their fellow “jews”. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

had an interesting conversation yesterday with an arab Eygptian coptic christian.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] What is his name, and please provide an email address to confirm this story. Considering the bigotry and racism you harbor towards Arabs and promote on this forum, as an Arab I find it impossible for you to have a civil conversation with any Arab. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

COMPLETELY supports the American invasion of Iraq because he understands this isn't a war against Iraqis but rather the battleground for a war against the racist hatred of islam

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Then “he” (you) have absolutely no comprehension of the Iraq war. Saddam was a secular leader, he kept radical Islam in check, he kept the terrorists out…. Now that the US has gone in they have created the perfect recuiting ground for terrorist, t hey have created the perfect circumstance for radical Islam to flourish… the invasion of Iraq has done more for radical Islam and terrorism then any other event in history. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] just as the current wars of the middle east are rooted in that evil coalition also.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] How right you are, Israel is only a nation because of the holocaust. Without Hitler there would be no Israel. [/FONT]

 

[MezzaMorta]

Bingo!
Right on the money and all three of these monotheistic religions have apocalyptic end time scenarios affiliated with their beliefs.
The world is definitely playing with fire, in the tinderbox!

http://anewknighthood.blogspot.com/
Michael

Doesn’t the Christian version state that most Jews will die? [FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[archangelmichael]

Doesn’t the Christian version state that most Jews will die?

Without going and looking it up, I think about 2/3 of the Jews, in Israel, will perish, along with many Christians and Muslims.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

What is his name, and please provide an email address to confirm this story. Considering the bigotry and racism you harbor towards Arabs and promote on this forum, as an Arab I find it impossible for you to have a civil conversation with any Arab.

Oh please, don't be a jerk.

Considering the bigotry and racism you harbor against Jews and Israelis, I can't imagine you've ever rationally deliberated much of anything.

Speaking of which, how's that standard of Arab standard of living going in Tripoli?