Is there a second chance?

[Satt]

The three scriptures below made me need to ask this question. Is there some sort of second chance? Why would Jesus need to preach in sheol if the spirits had already lived their lives and it is too late for them? Maybe I am just confused about what actually happened. I don’t know.

Acts 2 King James Version)
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

1 Peter 3 (King James Version)[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/font]
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;[/font]

Matthew 12 (King James Version)
40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.[/font]

 

[JanCorneel]

The best explanation I know of 1 Peter 3:19 is that the preaching occurred in the days of Noah, by the spirit of Jesus before his incarnation, through Noah. It is not necessary to assume that the spirits in prison (the dead in realm of the dead) were dead at the moment of preaching.

There is no second chance, since "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Hebr.9:27).

The question however is whether judgment will lead to annihilation or reconciliation. Eternal suffering is in my view ridiculous nonsense that should be dismissed on the basis of gross inconsistency with God being love.

 

[heritage36]

Very well said JanCorneel! Good thoughts on this! I don't think the verses the author of this thread posted really have to do so much with a second chance. Perhaps you could elaborate more on what made you think that? Christs time between death on the cross and resurrection is likely something we would not be able to understand until he gives us that knowledge. BAsically what I take out of it was that he did not yet ascend to heaven as he told Mary, but had not yet been resurrected fully.

 

[JanCorneel]

Very well said JanCorneel! Good thoughts on this! I don't think the verses the author of this thread posted really have to do so much with a second chance. Perhaps you could elaborate more on what made you think that? Christs time between death on the cross and resurrection is likely something we would not be able to understand until he gives us that knowledge. BAsically what I take out of it was that he did not yet ascend to heaven as he told Mary, but had not yet been resurrected fully.

1 Peter 3:19 is one of the traditional "difficult" verses, together with 1 Peter 4:6. Here we see the "preaching of the gospel to them that are dead". When was the gospel preached? When they were still alive of course. They are dead now because they were "judged according to men in the flesh" (same verse) but they will live according to God in the spirit (again same verse) if they reacted positively on the preaching in their lives. We see the same principle at work here: something is said about the dead, but what's being said applies to when they were still alive.

 

[Angelbeats]

The three scriptures below made me need to ask this question. Is there some sort of second chance? Why would Jesus need to preach in sheol if the spirits had already lived their lives and it is too late for them? Maybe I am just confused about what actually happened. I don’t know.

Acts 2 King James Version)
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

1 Peter 3 (King James Version)[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/font]
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;[/font]

Matthew 12 (King James Version)
40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.[/font]

Acts 2 was speaking about Christ. 1 Peter 3 was talking about the unsaved in the shackles of sin still. Matthew 12 was talking about the Lord being dead for 3 days.

 

[Chickapee]

Hi Satt and all ,

the way I understand it is in Adam all die
being flesh and blood
its being in Christ all shall be made alive
that to me means we have to be born again of Spirit , born of faith in Jesus Christ
in the time of old Christ was not revealed as He is in the New testament ..
they had a chance so to speak to hear what the Spirit is saying ,
thats how we are born again , as Jesus told Nicodemus in

John 3 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit,


he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof,

but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

who did Christ preach to in prison / sheol ?

the spirits !
see, we walk in the flesh and are dead to God right now
till we are spoken to By the Spirit / Christ

it is Christ who makes alive !
Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Living and the dead ...
given all power and authority by the Father / God the Power of the Cross , was a big turning event indeed ... Rom 14:9For to this end Christ both died, and rose,

and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.


God / Father is God of the living . .

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,

while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water
notice its says water and Spirit but the 8 souls we saved by water all else souls died in the water

Adam was a living soul rembember that verse ?
those souls saved were by water and now in the water in Spirit the right Spirit / Christ

by hearing the same things we are also hearing , now obedience is the next step to walking in the Spirit
Rom 10:17So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


I am not very good at explaining anything
but I will say this ...........Once the Spirit has spoken and healed us we best be WALKING THE WALK

AND RUNNING THE RACE ..

fear of the Lord is the begining of Wisdom and we wont get any wisdom without understanding ..
and all is from the Lord and we are thankful for this saving grace

we have this now as they were also given in that day/time ..

 

[razeontherock]

Whoa guys, let's not forget to take the whole of Scripture into account, ok?

Why would Jesus need to preach in sheol if the spirits had already lived their lives and it is too late for them?

It's not that hard, but there are many elements and you need to grasp from Genesis to Revelation. This isn't people:

"Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Why did Noah's flood occur? (specifically)

Is there Salvation for spirits?

Spirits do not "live their lives." 2/3 of them kept their first estate, and I offer no explanation for how the other 1/3 could possibly have done otherwise because the Bible doesn't tell us.

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Look into this question considering these elements, and see what you come up with.

 

[ittarter]

The best explanation I know of 1 Peter 3:19 is that the preaching occurred in the days of Noah, by the spirit of Jesus before his incarnation, through Noah. It is not necessary to assume that the spirits in prison (the dead in realm of the dead) were dead at the moment of preaching.

This is one reading from more than a dozen -- as you likely know -- and the most important observation to take away from this is that there is no constraint upon us to see any support for the Second Chance theory in this passage.

There is no second chance, since "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Hebr.9:27).

I doubt Heb. 9:27 is conclusive, since the Second Change theory doesn't require more than one death per person (i.e. it depend on reincarnation in order to make sense). Second, the judgment (as 9:27 says) is simply subsequent to death and no immediacy from one to the other is assumed by this passage.

As I rule, I wouldn't eliminate it from the realm of possibility -- I've gotten some inspiration from Eastern Orthodox friends here. I prefer the view that the Bible doesn't address the question -- it's simply not on the radar.

The question however is whether judgment will lead to annihilation or reconciliation. Eternal suffering is in my view ridiculous nonsense that should be dismissed on the basis of gross inconsistency with God being love.

Agreed, and I'm glad I'm not the only annihilationist on the boards Although again, it wasn't God being love that brought me to this conclusion (but it's nice that I don't have to deal with that rather hairy issue!)

 

[ittarter]

1 Peter 3:19 is one of the traditional "difficult" verses, together with 1 Peter 4:6.

I haven't studied 3:19 in the Greek, but I wrote a paper on 4:4-6 and concluded that no connection between 4:6 and 3:19 was evident. This severely weakens any notion of Second Chance for either passage.

If anyone wants specific details, let me know, and it would help if I knew your degree of familiarity with Greek in advance

 

[Christos Anesti]

This a great article by the Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev on the subject of Christs descent into hades :

Christ the Conqueror of Hell

I liked this part explaining the teaching of St Gregory of Nyssa:

Gregory of Nyssa entwines the theme of the descent in hell with the theory of 'divine deception'. On the latter he builds his teaching on the Redemption. According to this theory, Christ, being God incarnate, deliberately concealed His divine nature from the devil so that he, mistaking Him for an ordinary man, would not be terrified at the sight of an overwhelming power approaching him. When Christ descended in hell, the devil supposed Him to be a human being, but this was a divine 'hook' disguised under a human 'bait' that the devil swallowed[11] . By admitting God incarnate into his domain, the devil himself signed his own death warrant: incapable of enduring the divine presence, he was overcome and defeated, and hell was destroyed.

This is precisely the idea that Gregory of Nyssa developed in one of his Easter sermons on 'The Three-Day Period of the Resurrection of Christ'. Judging by its contents, this homily was intended for Holy Saturday[12], and in it Gregory poses the question of why Christ spent three days 'in the heart of the earth'[13]. This period was necessary and sufficient, he argues, for Christ to 'expose the foolishness' (moranai) of the devil[14], i.e, to outwit, ridicule and deceive him[15]. How did Christ manage to 'outwit' the devil? Gregory gives the following reply to this question:

As the ruler of darkness could not approach the presence of the Light unimpeded, had he not seen in Him something of flesh, then, as soon as he saw the God-bearing flesh and saw the miracle performed through it by the Deity, he hoped that if he came to take hold of the flesh through death, then he would take hold of all the power contained in it. Therefore, having swallowed the bait of the flesh, he was pierced by the hook of the Deity and thus the dragon was transfixed by the hook.[16]
​

 

[Christos Anesti]

Oh yeah and this by St Cyril of Alexandria too:

'For having destroyed hell and opened the impassable gates for the departed spirits, He left the devil there abandoned and lonely'

 

[singpeace]

It's my understanding that those He preached to had never heard of salvation. It's a theory some theologians have. I tend to agree with it. He was giving them a fair chance to receive salvation.

I mean, these people had never even heard of Moses or his Law. They were completely clueless about God's people and his promise of a Messiah. Must have lived in a very remote location/s.

 

[ittarter]

It's my understanding that those He preached to had never heard of salvation. It's a theory some theologians have. I tend to agree with it. He was giving them a fair chance to receive salvation.

I mean, these people had never even heard of Moses or his Law. They were completely clueless about God's people and his promise of a Messiah. Must have lived in a very remote location/s.

The problem with this is that there is no conceivable reason for Peter to reassure those being persecuted by Christian-haters by citing Jesus' evangelistic attempts toward those who never got a chance to hear the gospel.

We need to keep in mind the purpose of the letter and judge all readings on the basis of their rhetorical relationship to it. We need to avoid reading our modern theological dilemmas into texts written for entirely unrelated contexts.

Other, minor objections: the idea that everyone "deserves" to hear the gospel is absent from the New Testament; Rom. 2 probably teaches that such people you refer to in fact have a "natural law" inside them, which they are responsible to obey.