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Is there a group of people who think they are saved, but really aren't?

skullkrusher

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Growth in grace and sanctification aren't the same thing. We certainly do grow in grace and knowledge of Christ and His truth but that isn't sanctification. That is growth in grace. The meaning of the word sanctify, sanctification in the Scriptures means primarily to be set apart as holy. It also means to be declared holy and to be made holy. Now there are not nor can be degrees to holiness or righteousness. You are either holy or you aren't. You are either righteous or you aren't. You can't become more holy or more righteous. It is an impossibility. To be almost holy is to be unholy. To be almost righteous is to be unrighteous. Now with that in mind we see that we were set apart as holy in eternal election, declared holy in justification and made holy in regeneration. That doesn't mean that I hold to any form of perfectionism but I recognize that believers are a people of 2 natures: flesh and spirit. Gal. 5:17 The flesh remains flesh and never gets better. When we are regenerated we become a new creature in Christ with a holy nature that cannot sin because we are His seed and it remains in us. 1John:3:9.

We seem to be talking past each other -- the issue is one of clarifying terms. I don't see any real issue with the use of the term sanctification in relation to growth in grace -- that is what it is, and is described as such in Scripture. It is a question of objective sanctification v. subjective sanctification. These are not my own terms, but are the terms that have been appied for many years by reformed theologians to address and define the different aspects of sanctification. My OP was regarding subjective sanctification, i.e., growth in grace. You really haven't addressed my original point.
 
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oworm

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We seem to be talking past each other -- the issue is one of clarifying terms. I don't see any real issue with the use of the term sanctification in relation to growth in grace -- that is what it is, and is described as such in Scripture. It is a question of objective sanctification v. subjective sanctification. These are not my own terms, but are the terms that have been appied for many years by reformed theologians to address and define the different aspects of sanctification. My OP was regarding subjective sanctification, i.e., growth in grace. You really haven't addressed my original point.

Maybe we should open a new thread since this is the "Ask A Calvinist" thread. We do seem to have derailed the OP somewhat:sorry:
 
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oworm

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If you still want to discuss my view of sanctification start another thread in the general discussion section of Semper and I will do my best to answer when I can. Been real busy lately. :)

I would love to discuss this but like yourself I am busy. I'm in the middle of a final Greek exam, preparing for a weekly Bible study and was recently appointed to preach monthly at our evening service. If I get too caught up in a debate (I love debating) then my focus could be divided thinly. Maybe another time when we have more time to discuss.:)
 
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oworm

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Yes, they're called Methodists.


Hmm.............. I dont think I have read or heard of any reliable Calvinist source which has posited that Methodists think they are saved but really aren't. Can you provide any source for this please?
 
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green wolverine

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I guess I was expecting something more along the lines of a type of reprobate which is so self-deceived that he believes he is saved, but really isn't. I think I heard it a long time ago as a way to explain those who have turned away from the faith.

Well, what you said is what I was going to say.

I heard Dr. RC Sproul, a Presbyterian theologian say once that there are 4 classes of people: those who are saved and know it, those who are saved and don't know it, those who aren't saved and think they are and those who aren't saved and know they aren't.

There have to be people who for whatever reason believe themselves to be Christians as Jesus said that they will say to Him 'Lord, Lord, didn't we do whatever' and He'll tell them to depart from Him as He never knew them.
 
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