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All those who think that they saved themselves by something they did, though they deny it vehemently. It doesn't matter how small that thing you did is. The reality is that if you did something that something is what you put your faith in.According to Calvinism?
So by what you are saying only Calvinists are saved, since Calvinists believe that accepting the salvation God offers is a work? Just trying to clarify.All those who think that they saved themselves by something they did, though they deny it vehemently. It doesn't matter how small that thing you did is. The reality is that if you did something that something is what you put your faith in.
BTW, I do not speak for all Calvinists.
So by what you are saying only Calvinists are saved, since Calvinists believe that accepting the salvation God offers is a work? Just trying to clarify.
Not the response I expected, but okay.
I don't believe God offers salvation but that He gives it. The Scriptures declare plainly that salvation is a gift of God. Calvinism isn't salvation faith in Christ alone is. There are some dead Calvinists. The Scriptures clearly teach that works have nothing to do with salvation. I find nowhere in the New Testament where, when preaching the Gospel, the Apostles asked anyone to do anything. The thing that is of most importance is the Christ that is preached and the true message of the Gospel. The Gospel isn't you do something because God does something. It isn't centered on man at all but on the person and work of Christ. It isn't designed to give man something to do but to glorify Christ and by the power of the Spirit bring chosen sinners unto faith in Him. The Gospel that is preached is different. I know some very orthodox Calvinists who still don't know what it means to preach the Gospel. Doctrine doesn't save Christ does.So by what you are saying only Calvinists are saved, since Calvinists believe that accepting the salvation God offers is a work? Just trying to clarify.
Not the response I expected, but okay.
I guess I was expecting something more along the lines of a type of reprobate which is so self-deceived that he believes he is saved, but really isn't. I think I heard it a long time ago as a way to explain those who have turned away from the faith.
All reprobates are self-deceived thinking that they are OK eternally. Very many are filling pews every Sunday morning. Those who run for a while and then go back to their old ways were never really saved if God leaves them to die in their sin. Salvation doesn't depend on how sincere you are, how much you believe, how you live, love and give. It is wholly and totally by and in Christ. He is salvation. When you truly have Him you have all those other things.I guess I was expecting something more along the lines of a type of reprobate which is so self-deceived that he believes he is saved, but really isn't. I think I heard it a long time ago as a way to explain those who have turned away from the faith.
Is there a group of people who think they are saved, but really aren't? According to Calvinism?
Yeah, they call themselves Liberal Christians.According to Calvinism?
All those who think that they saved themselves by something they did, though they deny it vehemently. It doesn't matter how small that thing you did is. The reality is that if you did something that something is what you put your faith in.
BTW, I do not speak for all Calvinists.
I don't mean to imply anything so I will do my best to be as clear as I possibly can. A knowledge of the Doctrines of Grace aren't required any more than being able to recite the five points of Calvinism. What is required is to know Christ as he is revealed in the Scriptures and to look to Him alone for all that God requires and gives. No saved sinner believes that salvation depends on or is conditioned in any way on something, no matter how small that something is, that the sinner does. That would clearly leave out all those who look to a decision they made or a faith they mustered or a card they signed, a walk they performed or any other thing that false free-will works religion teaches. I do not in any way seek to be contentious or to shut the door on any but I must bow to the Scriptures and stand on what is revealed by the Spirit. Any who trust a false christ or trust in a false gospel are not saved. At least not yet. That is why it is so urgent to preach the Gospel as it is in Christ Jesus the Lord to a lost and dying religious world as much as to a lost and dying profligate one. I would venture to say that I would disagree with you on the matter of sanctification. I do not hold to progressive sanctification but take the word as it is used in Scripture.Perhaps I misundertood due to the brevity of your post, but it seems you're implying that one who doesn't understand the doctrines of grace is hell-bound. That's a dangerous view to espouse; the fullness of one's grasp on the intricacies of the Lord's grace isn't the defining factor in justificatin; it pertains to sanctification.
Coulds someone please remove the image included in this poster's signature that violates the second commandment from this forum? It is highly offensive.It's all about the works baby!
(And the statues, need statues too. And praying to dead people, can't forget that one.)
I don't mean to imply anything so I will do my best to be as clear as I possibly can. A knowledge of the Doctrines of Grace aren't required any more than being able to recite the five points of Calvinism. What is required is to know Christ as he is revealed in the Scriptures and to look to Him alone for all that God requires and gives. No saved sinner believes that salvation depends on or is conditioned in any way on something, no matter how small that something is, that the sinner does. That would clearly leave out all those who look to a decision they made or a faith they mustered or a card they signed, a walk they performed or any other thing that false free-will works religion teaches. I do not in any way seek to be contentious or to shut the door on any but I must bow to the Scriptures and stand on what is revealed by the Spirit. Any who trust a false christ or trust in a false gospel are not saved. At least not yet. That is why it is so urgent to preach the Gospel as it is in Christ Jesus the Lord to a lost and dying religious world as much as to a lost and dying profligate one. I would venture to say that I would disagree with you on the matter of sanctification. I do not hold to progressive sanctification but take the word as it is used in Scripture.
Growth in grace and sanctification aren't the same thing. We certainly do grow in grace and knowledge of Christ and His truth but that isn't sanctification. That is growth in grace. The meaning of the word sanctify, sanctification in the Scriptures means primarily to be set apart as holy. It also means to be declared holy and to be made holy. Now there are not nor can be degrees to holiness or righteousness. You are either holy or you aren't. You are either righteous or you aren't. You can't become more holy or more righteous. It is an impossibility. To be almost holy is to be unholy. To be almost righteous is to be unrighteous. Now with that in mind we see that we were set apart as holy in eternal election, declared holy in justification and made holy in regeneration. That doesn't mean that I hold to any form of perfectionism but I recognize that believers are a people of 2 natures: flesh and spirit. Gal. 5:17 The flesh remains flesh and never gets better. When we are regenerated we become a new creature in Christ with a holy nature that cannot sin because we are His seed and it remains in us. 1John:3:9.This thread may be long-dead by now, but I just picked up the response (haven't been on CF much lately). At any rate, I'm curious about your view of sanctification -- progressive sanctification can be understood in a couple different ways, so, what exactly do you not agree with about it? granting that the saved are objectively sanctified en toto does not nullify the temporal reality of growth in holiness. If we reject that concept, we are running contrary to Scripture.
Growth in grace and sanctification aren't the same thing. We certainly do grow in grace and knowledge of Christ and His truth but that isn't sanctification. That is growth in grace. The meaning of the word sanctify, sanctification in the Scriptures means primarily to be set apart as holy. It also means to be declared holy and to be made holy. Now there are not nor can be degrees to holiness or righteousness. You are either holy or you aren't. You are either righteous or you aren't. You can't become more holy or more righteous. It is an impossibility. To be almost holy is to be unholy. To be almost righteous is to be unrighteous. Now with that in mind we see that we were set apart as holy in eternal election, declared holy in justification and made holy in regeneration. That doesn't mean that I hold to any form of perfectionism but I recognize that believers are a people of 2 natures: flesh and spirit. Gal. 5:17 The flesh remains flesh and never gets better. When we are regenerated we become a new creature in Christ with a holy nature that cannot sin because we are His seed and it remains in us. 1John:3:9.
While growing in grace and sanctification aren't the same thing they are closely united. As we grow in grace we do grow in separation but we do not become more holy. Paul here is just seeking that the Thessalonians become wholly separated unto God.Hmmmm........ I'm kind of wondering how that position fits with Paul's word to the Thessalonians
1 Thess 5: 23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Given that the epistle is written to believers, why would Paul pray for their complete sanctification if they are already completely sanctified?
I didn't want to quote you out of context so I highlighted the part of your reply that I wanted to address. First let me go back a little in 1st Thessalonians and Paul's final exhortation to the believers ther where he says:While growing in grace and sanctification aren't the same thing they are closely united. As we grow in grace we do grow in separation but we do not become more holy. Paul here is just seeking that the Thessalonians become wholly separated unto God.
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