Is There A Difference between Apostle and Disciple?

[Albion]

That’s incorrect exegesis.

Paul said no man gave him the gospel he preached, but only Jesus - no mention of apostleship....

"Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—". Galatians 1:1.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Apostle means messenger.

Paul lists the office of apostle among other gifts such as teaching:

1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

And the gifts have no expiration date of ending with the apostles deaths.

Miracles weren’t limited to the apostles, either.

Stephen was no apostle, but did great miracles.

The gifts to the church end when Jesus returns and they are no longer needed.

Shalom.

You read scripture through the lens of dispensationalism which began in 1854. Your bias is showing its true colors loud and clear.

So in reality you cannot interpret Scripture with proper hermenuetics and exegesis.

hope this helps !!!

 

[chad kincham]

This office of Apostle died with John.

hope this helps !!!

Actually it doesn’t help me at all, since Paul taught that apostles are one of the HS gifts to the church, and gave no expiration date for the gifts ending when the original 12 expired.

In fact in Acts 2:38-39 Peter made clear that the gift of the HS given that day was in effect as long as God still calls anyone.

Shalom.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

"Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—". Galatians 1:1.

Amen its right in front of his eyes yet his bias it showing itself loud and clear.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Actually it doesn’t help me at all, since Paul taught that apostles are one of the HS gifts to the church, and gave no expiration date for the gifts ending when the original 12 expired.

In fact in Acts 2:38-39 Peter made clear that the gift of the HS given that day was in effect as long as God still calls anyone.

Shalom.

You don't even know what the purpose of the gift of miracles was for do you chad ?

 

[RickReads]

Actually it doesn’t help me at all, since Paul taught that apostles are one of the HS gifts to the church, and gave no expiration date for the gifts ending when the original 12 expired.

In fact in Acts 2:38-39 Peter made clear that the gift of the HS given that day was in effect as long as God still calls anyone.

Shalom.

You baptized in Jesus name Chad? I`m just curious

 

[chad kincham]

You read scripture through the lens of dispensationalism which began in 1854. Your bias is showing its true colors loud and clear.

So in reality you cannot interpret Scripture with proper hermenuetics and exegesis.

hope this helps !!!

That was written to the church at Corinth, which negates your claim in its entirety.

BTW throwing out five dollar words such as hermeneutics, exegesis or eisegesis does not impress me in the least.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

That was written to the church at Corinth, which negates your claim in its entirety.

BTW throwing out five dollar words such as hermeneutics, exegesis or eisegesis does not impress me in the least.

Truth never does

 

[chad kincham]

You baptized in Jesus name Chad? I`m just curious

Jesus baptized me with the Holy Spirit and Fire, as John promised He would.

I was water baptized per the formula Jesus Himself gave us, in Matthew 28:19, though.

Is Jesus sufficient authority for the words iterated in water baptism?

Shalom.

 

[RickReads]

Jesus baptized me with the Holy Spirit and Fire, as John promised He would.

I was water baptized per the formula Jesus Himself gave us, in Matthew 28:19, though.

Is Jesus sufficient authority for the words iterated in water baptism?

Shalom.

Ok, you maybe should stay away from Acts 2:38. Most who quote it believe in it.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

@chad kincham

Miracles authenticated the message was from God and they were Gods mouthpiece of His revelation. Moses declared the Law(new revelation), Elijah and Elisha the Prophets(new revelation). Daniel with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in the furnace and also Jonah and Joshua in Jericho.

Then we see nothing till Jesus 3year period of ministry with the New Covenant. The purpose of signs, wonder, and miracles was to authenticate the messenger and the message. This was necessary because God's written revelation was yet incomplete. Christ performed many miracles and signs which the Apostle John describes with these words: Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name (John 20:30-31). Notice, the miracles of Jesus gave authenticated His message and claims to His Deity.

Matthew 11:3-6
and said to Him, "Are You the Expected One, or shall we look for someone else?" 4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you hear and see: 5 the blind receive sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 "And blessed is he who keeps from stumbling over Me."


Romans 15:18-20
18 For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed, 19 in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

2 Corinthians 12:12
12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.

There is no need for them at all in this period of time until God send His 2 messengers in Revelation who perform miracles, signs and wonders once again authenticating their message is from God in warning the world of Gods wrath and to repent.

All miracle workers since the Apostles until the 2 Witnesses in Revelation are false christs as per Jesus and the Apostles teaching below

Matthew 24:23-27
Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.


hope this helps !!!

 

[chad kincham]

You don't even know what the purpose of the gift of miracles was for do you chad ?

I know what the bogus claim of cessationists is, that miracles were only until the church was established and the scriptures were given, which is completely wrong.

Miracles are because Gods very name is Jehovah Raphael, the LORD is our healer.

Jesus in fact said everything He did, and everything He said, are what He saw and heard the Father do and say - which includes miracles.

The Father was healing and doing miracles long before Jesus was born, but hardly doing them to establish the church and the New Testament.

Jesus did His miracles through the Dunamis power of the Holy Spirit, Acts 10:38.

The 125 people at Pentecost received the same HS Dunamis power that Jesus healed the sick with Acts 1:8.

Peter also said on Pentecost day, that the same gift of the HS that manifested that day, was for “us, our children those afar off, EVEN TO AS MANY AS GOD SHALL CALL Acts 2:38-39 - thus as long as God is saving and calling people, that same Dunamis power (miracle working dynamic HS power) is for us.

Stephen, not an apostle, who was “full of faith AND POWER (Dunamis) did great miracles among the people.

These facts are why Jesus said that those who believe in Him can do the same works He did, John 14:12, and said those who believe shall lay hands on the sick and heal them.

On top of that, scripture warns us that in the last days, some churches will be spiritually dead and have a form of Godliness, but will deny the POWER (Dunamis in the koine Greek), and says from such churches STAY AWAY.

So much for cessationist semi-apostate denial that HS gifts such as healing and doing miracles, expired when the 12 apostles expired.

Baruch HaShem hamashiach Yehoshua

 

[chad kincham]

@chad kincham

Miracles authenticated the message was from God and they were Gods mouthpiece of His revelation. Moses declared the Law(new revelation), Elijah and Elisha the Prophets(new revelation). Daniel with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in the furnace and also Jonah and Joshua in Jericho.

Then we see nothing till Jesus 3year period of ministry with the New Covenant. The purpose of signs, wonder, and miracles was to authenticate the messenger and the message. This was necessary because God's written revelation was yet incomplete. Christ performed many miracles and signs which the Apostle John describes with these words: Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name (John 20:30-31). Notice, the miracles of Jesus gave authenticated His message and claims to His Deity.

Matthew 11:3-6
and said to Him, "Are You the Expected One, or shall we look for someone else?" 4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you hear and see: 5 the blind receive sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 "And blessed is he who keeps from stumbling over Me."


Romans 15:18-20
18 For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed, 19 in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

2 Corinthians 12:12
12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.

There is no need for them at all in this period of time until God send His 2 messengers in Revelation who perform miracles, signs and wonders once again authenticating their message is from God in warning the world of Gods wrath and to repent.

All miracle workers since the Apostles until the 2 Witnesses in Revelation are false christs as per Jesus and the Apostles teaching below

Matthew 24:23-27
Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.


hope this helps !!!

See my rebuttal to your fallacious claim in my prior answers.

Jesus didn’t say miracles and signs and ceased - He said that there will be counterfeit signs and wonders.

Jesus in fact said signs of laying hands on the sick and healing, will follow those who believe. Mark 16.

Your claim about counterfeit miracles and signs is like saying real 20 dollar bills don’t exist because there are counterfeit 20 dollar bills around.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

See my rebuttal to your fallacious claim in my prior answers.

Jesus didn’t say miracles and signs and ceased - He said that there will be counterfeit signs and wonders.

Jesus in fact said signs of laying hands on the sick and healing, will follow those who believe. Mark 16.

Your claim about counterfeit miracles and signs is like saying real 20 dollar bills don’t exist because there are counterfeit 20 dollar bills around.

Hey believe whatever you want and let those false miracles workers Jesus and the Apostles spoke of persuade you into believing their lies.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

See my rebuttal to your fallacious claim in my prior answers.

Jesus didn’t say miracles and signs and ceased - He said that there will be counterfeit signs and wonders.

Jesus in fact said signs of laying hands on the sick and healing, will follow those who believe. Mark 16.

Your claim about counterfeit miracles and signs is like saying real 20 dollar bills don’t exist because there are counterfeit 20 dollar bills around.

do you have the gift of tongues ?

yes or no

 

[RickReads]

do you have the gift of tongues ?

yes or no

 

[chad kincham]

You don't even know what the purpose of the gift of miracles was for do you chad ?

I know what the bogus claim of cessationists is, that miracles were only until the church was established and the scriptures were given, which is completely wrong.

Miracles are because Gods very name is Jehovah Raphael, the LORD is our healer.

Jesus in fact said everything He did, and everything He said, are what He saw and heard the Father do and say - which includes miracles.

The Father was healing and doing miracles long before Jesus was born, but hardly doing them to establish the church and the New Testament.

Jesus did His miracles through the Dunamis power of the Holy Spirit, Acts 10:38.

The 125 people at Pentecost received the same HS Dunamis power that Jesus healed the sick with Acts 1:8.

Peter also said on Pentecost day, that the same gift of the HS that manifested that day, was for “us, our children those afar off, EVEN TO AS MANY AS GOD SHALL CALL Acts 2:38-39 - thus as long as God is saving and calling people, that same Dunamis power (miracle working dynamic HS power) is for us.

Stephen, not an apostle, who was “full of faith AND POWER (Dunamis) did great miracles among the people.

These facts are why Jesus said that those who believe in Him can do the same works He did, John 14:12, and said those who believe shall lay hands on the sick and heal them.

On top of that, scripture warns us that in the last days, some churches will be spiritually dead and have a form of Godliness, but will deny the POWER (Dunamis in the koine Greek), and says from such churches STAY AWAY.

So much for cessationist semi-apostate denial that HS gifts such as healing and doing miracles, expired when the 12 apostles expired.

Truth never does

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I know what the bogus claim of cessationists is, that miracles were only until the church was established and the scriptures were given, which is completely wrong.

Miracles are because Gods very name is Jehovah Raphael, the LORD is our healer.

Jesus in fact said everything He did, and everything He said, are what He saw and heard the Father do and say - which includes miracles.

The Father was healing and doing miracles long before Jesus was born, but hardly doing them to establish the church and the New Testament.

Jesus did His miracles through the Dunamis power of the Holy Spirit, Acts 10:38.

The 125 people at Pentecost received the same HS Dunamis power that Jesus healed the sick with Acts 1:8.

Peter also said on Pentecost day, that the same gift of the HS that manifested that day, was for “us, our children those afar off, EVEN TO AS MANY AS GOD SHALL CALL Acts 2:38-39 - thus as long as God is saving and calling people, that same Dunamis power (miracle working dynamic HS power) is for us.

Stephen, not an apostle, who was “full of faith AND POWER (Dunamis) did great miracles among the people.

These facts are why Jesus said that those who believe in Him can do the same works He did, John 14:12, and said those who believe shall lay hands on the sick and heal them.

On top of that, scripture warns us that in the last days, some churches will be spiritually dead and have a form of Godliness, but will deny the POWER (Dunamis in the koine Greek), and says from such churches STAY AWAY.

So much for cessationist semi-apostate denial that HS gifts such as healing and doing miracles, expired when the 12 apostles expired.

not into your cut n paste

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Just want to hear him say it lol.

 

[chad kincham]

do you have the gift of tongues ?

yes or no

You bet.

BTW there are three different kinds of tongued as Paul said, there are DIVERSITIES of tongues.

So now you’re going to “teach” me all about spiritual gifts?


Someone who has a form of Godliness but denies the POWER is going to correct me on Dunamis power?

I don’t think so.