Is the story of Lazarus and the rich man literal?

[KevinT]

It was likely a parable.
...

Why was Lazarus blessed at Abraham's side?

Just because he was poor?

I think just a parable to prepare people for when He would resurrect his friend Lazarus.

I can't help but notice that this is the #1 go-to passage of those that teach of eternal active torment (hell) for the wicked.

KT

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

It was likely a parable.

Lk 16:


The rich man in Hades saw Abraham and Lazarus in heaven. That's not physically possible.

All parables have spiritual components that are unseen by the fleshly senses, but in the spiritual there are also senses.

The spiritual arena is far more fascinating and definitely REAL. That's part of why Jesus spoke these things in parable form so we could wrap our heads around the subject matters.

A lot of believers suffer the delusion that a parable is a fairy tale like story and this isn't the case at all. They are real accounts of real actors. Jesus broke these things down into palatable forms which are only meant to be understood by "disciples."

IF people don't understand them, they are not yet "discipled."

Why was the rich man being tortured in Hades?

Couple that fact with Matt. 12:43 and put some Word brush strokes to work.

We quite mistakenly and automatically think of the "rich man" as a person and this isn't the case.

IF we use Jesus' dissection it will quickly come to light on "who" this party is: Mark 4:13-15 shows us the "critical and elemental" necessary components not only to every parable, but to every Word of God as well.

Just because he did not listen to Moses (v. 31). But Moses didn't spell out the punishment of conscious eternal punishment in Hades/Sheol.

That really doesn't have anything to do with that observation by Jesus.

Disciples are supposed to know that the law is for lawless sinners. It's not a benefit for lawless sinners. It's condemnation. And lawless sinners not only will not and can not listen to the law, they are compelled, literally forced to DISOBEY the laws.

Why was Lazarus blessed at Abraham's side?

Lazarus was obviously blessed and slated to move on in an opposite fashion than the rich man, in the father of faith's bosom. Some have speculated this was a holding area for people who died prior to the resurrection and I can agree with that sight, generally speaking. We also know that they all, like us, have not yet been perfected, Heb. 11:40

All that have passed as waiting on US. When the Body is complete, that will be "thee end."

Just because he was poor?

In the spiritual senses, we (people) are all "the poor." And we (people) are also the "the younger" vessels.

Did Jesus describe a historical story that had transpired already?

The parable applies to every person. Every Word of it. Those past, those present. Those future. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 3:8

No, a rich man would not be tormented in Hades before Judgment Day.

Oh, yes, they are quite tormented. Very much so, as the parable shows us.

Matthew 13:


The rich man story was part of a series of parables in Luke 15–16, which include the parables of the lost sheep, the lost coin, the lost prodigal son, the almost-lost dishonest manager, and the lost rich man. This was Jesus' MO of storytelling to teach moral and spiritual lessons using parables.

Good catch, and yes, true ^^^

I would disagree that's it's only a moral story or a lesson. It's a real account of what happens to people after we die.

Similar parables were told by rabbis around Jesus' time. Wiki:

Rabbi's generally speaking wouldn't have a clue about what Jesus said or meant, as many in the N.T. scriptures show us. Some have very minor bits and pieces, but for the most part they were all clueless. And there are scriptural reasons why they, above other Jews, were clueless for the most part. Paul touches on this in 2 Cor. 3:14 THEIR minds were in fact quite blinded. Paul also states this same fact in Romans 11:8

IF we're listening to Jesus, as disciples, we'll also know why i.e. the spiritual mechanics of how and why people are blinded. We'll also learn and know how to aid them in "healing" them to spiritual sight

It was a parable of fortune reversal. In life, Lazarus begged at the rich man's house. After death, the rich man begged Father Abraham to have mercy on him. It was intended to teach spiritual truths rather than provide literal happenings in the afterlife.

It really does NOT have a single thing to do with cold hard cash money.

Jer. 5:22-29 will provide some TREMENDOUS "insights" into the matters of the "rich men." Simply beautiful.

But as stated prior, only disciples will "get it" and are meant to get it. Everyone else will automatically fall into resistance to the facts, per Jesus.

What is the lesson of the parable?

Abraham said to the rich man:


Respond to God's word while we have the opportunity. Do good when we can before we cannot. Care for the poor in your neighborhood. Our earthly choices have eternal consequences.

Yeah, probably not.

Kind of a basic primer on this subject is that all of Israel are God's children, believer or unbeliever and they will all be saved, point blank period.

Lazarus was a Jew. The "rich man" was a phony Jew. A pretender. A basic wannabe LIAR.

 

[Grafted In]

All parables have spiritual components that are unseen by the fleshly senses, but in the spiritual there are also senses.

The spiritual arena is far more fascinating and definitely REAL. That's part of why Jesus spoke these things in parable form so we could wrap our heads around the subject matters.

A lot of believers suffer the delusion that a parable is a fairy tale like story and this isn't the case at all. They are real accounts of real actors. Jesus broke these things down into palatable forms which are only meant to be understood by "disciples."

IF people don't understand them, they are not yet "discipled."

Couple that fact with Matt. 12:43 and put some Word brush strokes to work.

We quite mistakenly and automatically think of the "rich man" as a person and this isn't the case.

IF we use Jesus' dissection it will quickly come to light on "who" this party is: Mark 4:13-15 shows us the "critical and elemental" necessary components not only to every parable, but to every Word of God as well.

That really doesn't have anything to do with that observation by Jesus.

Disciples are supposed to know that the law is for lawless sinners. It's not a benefit for lawless sinners. It's condemnation. And lawless sinners not only will not and can not listen to the law, they are compelled, literally forced to DISOBEY the laws.

Lazarus was obviously blessed and slated to move on in an opposite fashion than the rich man, in the father of faith's bosom. Some have speculated this was a holding area for people who died prior to the resurrection and I can agree with that sight, generally speaking. We also know that they all, like us, have not yet been perfected, Heb. 11:40

All that have passed as waiting on US. When the Body is complete, that will be "thee end."



In the spiritual senses, we (people) are all "the poor." And we (people) are also the "the younger" vessels.

The parable applies to every person. Every Word of it. Those past, those present. Those future. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 3:8

Oh, yes, they are quite tormented. Very much so, as the parable shows us.

Good catch, and yes, true ^^^

I would disagree that's it's only a moral story or a lesson. It's a real account of what happens to people after we die.

Rabbi's generally speaking wouldn't have a clue about what Jesus said or meant, as many in the N.T. scriptures show us. Some have very minor bits and pieces, but for the most part they were all clueless. And there are scriptural reasons why they, above other Jews, were clueless for the most part. Paul touches on this in 2 Cor. 3:14 THEIR minds were in fact quite blinded. Paul also states this same fact in Romans 11:8

IF we're listening to Jesus, as disciples, we'll also know why i.e. the spiritual mechanics of how and why people are blinded. We'll also learn and know how to aid them in "healing" them to spiritual sight

It really does NOT have a single thing to do with cold hard cash money.

Jer. 5:22-29 will provide some TREMENDOUS "insights" into the matters of the "rich men." Simply beautiful.

But as stated prior, only disciples will "get it" and are meant to get it. Everyone else will automatically fall into resistance to the facts, per Jesus.

Yeah, probably not.

Kind of a basic primer on this subject is that all of Israel are God's children, believer or unbeliever and they will all be saved, point blank period.

Lazarus was a Jew. The "rich man" was a phony Jew. A pretender. A basic wannabe LIAR.

But why did God choose to use wealth or the lack of as an indicator of faith.
There's more to this.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

But why did God choose to use wealth or the lack of as an indicator of faith.
There's more to this.

Well, that's the thing. You probably haven't yet pinned down the identity of the "rich man." And as stated prior it has nothing to do with being wealthy as we perceive wealth in the physical senses i.e. with money

IF any person wants to understand "all parables" from scripture THEN only 1 parable needs to be understood. I put the scripture reference in the previous post

 

[Der Alte]

It was likely a parable.

Lk 16:

The rich man in Hades saw Abraham and Lazarus in heaven. That's not physically possible.

Why was the rich man being tortured in Hades?

Just because he did not listen to Moses (v. 31). But Moses didn't spell out the punishment of conscious eternal punishment in Hades/Sheol.

Why was Lazarus blessed at Abraham's side?

Just because he was poor?

Did Jesus describe a historical story that had transpired already?

No, a rich man would not be tormented in Hades before Judgment Day.

Matthew 13:

The rich man story was part of a series of parables in Luke 15–16, which include the parables of the lost sheep, the lost coin, the lost prodigal son, the almost-lost dishonest manager, and the lost rich man. This was Jesus' MO of storytelling to teach moral and spiritual lessons using parables.

Similar parables were told by rabbis around Jesus' time. Wiki:

It was a parable of fortune reversal. In life, Lazarus begged at the rich man's house. After death, the rich man begged Father Abraham to have mercy on him. It was intended to teach spiritual truths rather than provide literal happenings in the afterlife.

What is the lesson of the parable?

Abraham said to the rich man:

Respond to God's word while we have the opportunity. Do good when we can before we cannot. Care for the poor in your neighborhood. Our earthly choices have eternal consequences.

Some ECF who mentioned Lazarus and the rich man treated it as factual. The rich man violated a specific commandment of God.

Deuteronomy 15:7-8​

(7) If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:​

(8) But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth.​

​

Irenaeus Against Heresies Chap. XXXIV. in that narrative which is recorded respecting the rich man and that Lazarus who found repose in the bosom of Abraham. In this account He states (Luk_16:19, etc.) that Dives knew Lazarus after death, and Abraham in like manner, and that each one of these persons continued in his own proper position, and that [Dives] requested Lazarus to be sent to relieve him — [Lazarus], on whom he did not [formerly] bestow even the crumbs [which fell] from his table. [He tells us] also of the answer given by Abraham, who was acquainted not only with what respected himself, but Dives also, and who enjoined those who did not wish to come into that place of torment to believe Moses and the prophets, and to receive216 the preaching of Him who was217 to rise again from the dead. By these things, then, it is plainly declared that souls continue to exist, that they do not pass from body to body, that they possess the form of a man, so that they may be recognised, and retain the memory of things in this world; moreover, that the gift of prophecy was possessed by Abraham,​

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Tertullain Resurrection Chap. XVII​

That souls are even now susceptible of torment and of blessing in Hades, though they are disembodied, and notwithstanding their banishment from the flesh, is proved by the case of Lazarus. I have no doubt given to my opponent room to say: Since, then, the soul has a bodily substance of its own, it will be sufficiently endowed with the faculty of suffering and sense, so as not to require the presence of the flesh. No, no, (is my reply): it will still need the flesh; not as being unable to feel anything without the help of the flesh, but because it is necessary that it should possess such a faculty along with the flesh. For in​