Is The Son Less Than The Father?

[Neogaia777]

"All is One, but only One is, or always was, from the beginning, All"...

Funny how people seem afraid of the clear truths or scripture that Jesus spoke to them and laid the foundations of/for at a very, very high price...?

One can be One with something or another thing, and not be that thing, nor be equal to that thing...

And that's the nature of the discussion here... Was Jesus equal to God the Father, or was The YHWH...? Sure they are One, but are the same thing or equal...?

Man has built entire man-made, man-derived philosophies that have assumed that just because Jesus said that they were "One" that they had to be equal or the same... And even when Jesus Himself said that they were not equal, or even the same, or performed or fulfilled the same functions or roles, or had the same (level of) knowledge (always)...

It is all fear-based, which led to entire man-made, man-derived philosophies, based on man's assumptions out of fear, that flat out deny what even Jesus Himself, said about Himself... That man has "faithfully followed" (a lie) for ages, and for centuries down through the ages...

Strange, isn't it...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

"All is One, but only One is, or always was, from the beginning, All"...

Funny how people seem afraid of the clear truths or scripture that Jesus spoke to them and laid the foundations of/for at a very, very high price...?

One can be One with something or another thing, and not be that thing, nor be equal to that thing...

And that's the nature of the discussion here... Was Jesus equal to God the Father, or was The YHWH...? Sure they are One, but are the same thing or equal...?

Man has built entire man-made, man-derived philosophies that have assumed that just because Jesus said that they were "One" that they had to be equal or the same... And even when Jesus Himself said that they were not equal, or even the same, or performed or fulfilled the same functions or roles, or had the same (level of) knowledge (always)...

It is all fear-based, which led to entire man-made, man-derived philosophies, based on man's assumptions out of fear, that flat out deny what even Jesus Himself, said about Himself... That man has "faithfully followed" (a lie) for ages, and for centuries down through the ages...

Strange, isn't it...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

If He (Jesus) could have just come out and said it (all) outright and straight-forwardly, He probably also that would have got Him killed, right there, instantly and on the spot...

But He did lay the "groundwork" for it (all)... that He knew, at sometime or some point in the future, we would eventually "figure out", but He had to "hide it" out of necessity at the time...

So it would be released and revealed "gradually", and in small doses over time...

Some or a lot of which I am trying to tell you now, outright and straight-forwardly, yet you do not receive it (and Him) or me...?

And maybe you can't right now, IDK...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I know, I got it, the answer is...

"42"...

I've researched it thoroughly...

God Bless!

 

[ViaCrucis]

In terms of redemptive history the Son did this. But this is not as God is in himself. This submission does not describe their relationship from all eternity.

Not in the sense that the Son is subordinate to the Father, as subordinatism is heretical. But that the Divine Persons do give themselves freely to One Another is, I think, an expression of the intra-Divine Life of the Trinity. So in the Incarnation we do not see an aberration, but expression of this. It is not a one-sided thing; but a reciprocal thing: For the Father gives Himself to the Son, and the Son gives Himself to the Father. And in the Incarnation we see the Son's obedience to the Father, but we also see here how the Father gives Himself to the Son, "therefore God has exalted Him"; but this is also ultimately economical toward us: For in Christ God gives Himself to us. For now sharing in Christ we have God as our Father, and we have the Holy Spirit in us.

I think, then, that the idea of kenosis is something that speaks to how God is Himself, and we see this in the Incarnation where the Son empties (ἐκένωσεν ekenosen) Himself in humility.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[com7fy8]

The Father remains remote and "aloof" from our creation,

But Paul says there is

"one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (Ephesians 4:6)

So, if "through all" means our Father is in and "through all" His creation, He is not what I would call "aloof". But it looks to me like our Father is in and through all His creation, keeping it all functional, including how electrons move around a nucleus something like 3,800 times a second, if I remember right.

So, what do you think "through all" means? And who is keeping our bodies and the sun and plants all functioning, if the Father is not?

I find that Jesus is the Head of the body of Christ, while the Holy Spirit is in and through us, caring for us and changing us into the image of Jesus.

Meanwhile our Father is maintaining creation around us, and managing situations, including how

"God resists the proud" (James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5), including by managing circumstances to resist people in their pride. So, do you believe Jesus or the Holy Spirit are doing this resisting? I think our Father does this judging of the proud, outside, while Jesus and the Holy Spirit specialize in ruling us inside the body of Christ.

"But those who are outside God judges." (in 1 Corinthians 5:13)

 

[~Zao~]

Knowing Christianity is the catalysis of understanding the relationship between Father and Son. If one doesn’t understand the basic premise of the shadow then one has no basis for understanding the substance. Marriage is that shadow, and understanding the position of the church to the Son is the same as understanding the mutuality of the Son to the Father, not on the same level but on the same premise.

James 1:23-25
23 For anyone who hears the word but does not carry it out is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror, 24 and after observing himself goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But the one who looks intently into the perfect law of freedom, and continues to do so—not being a forgetful hearer, but an effective doer—he will be blessed in what he does.…

 

[Neogaia777]

Jesus claimed to both the Son of Man (in his flesh) and the Son of God in His Spirit or in His essence that would be preserved...

He was the Son of Man because He was the Son of the original Son of God, or the YHWH, and He (Jesus) claimed to be the Son of God because He claimed to be the One, or the Son of the true Father God, or the always from the beginning fully omniscient One...

"If you are a/the Son God" someone said to Him (Jesus)...

YHWH was the original Son of God of the always from the beginning fully omniscient One, or the True Father God... Adam and YHWH in the Garden were the original Son of God, and the original Son of Man, cause Adam was a Son of the original Son of God, or YHWH, who was the original Son of God of the true Father God, or the All Father God...

YHWH is the Holy Spirit...

The true Father God knew all and planned all and knew all from the very beginning, made Satan and arranged for the fall to happen, ect, that would create a separation of the relationship between YHWH and Adam, or YHWH and Man... I wonder if YHWH is, or was in any way upset with Him (the True Father) for that...?

Anyway, what Jesus did "worked" in elevating Him, or restoring Him to His original position with God the Father, to go to where that One was was, and be both here and there, and as the light, or wherever there is light here... But, the two (YHWH and Jesus) were supposed to be or become "one new man" and go there together, and have peace with one another, now, did that part happen, or was YHWH left here...?

Is there still a separation between YHWH and Man...? Or is there truly "peace" now...? Is YHWH just still only here only, and not both here and there, like Christ or like the light is now...?

YHWH is very "passionate" to say the least... While Jesus and where He is now, both here and there, and here as the light and all light, is like the Father in that nothing seems to bother them, which kind of bothers me sometimes, in a way, and because stuff does bother me and us, I relate more to the YHWH than I do Christ or the Father sometimes because stuff does bother me and upset me sometimes, ect... And i love Him and Love them both...

But, I understand, they (Father and Jesus) are not worried about anything, because they know all, and know all is going to work out just fine in the end... But, I asked about all those here still having to suffer here in the meantime, and was kind of upset myself that nothing or none of it was seeming to bother them at all, ect...? Their indifference bothered me...

I was answered back that I myself knew that everything was going to work out in the end, and that I myself, said it myself, that all those that have to suffer here in the meantime, that what they are/were, that there "essence" would be preserved and they would be rewarded, or it would all be made right what they had to suffer "here", "there" when they got there... That they would not be allowed to just pass into oblivion, ect, and that I said so myself...

I still just don't understand how they could be so indifferent and "calm as Hindu cows" so to speak, but said I was glad for it anyway, but also said I could relate to YHWH and His being "upset"...

That I greatly loved them both, or all three, ect...

If Love is pain, if Love is crazy, if Love is insane, if Love drives one crazy and insane, then I guess YHWH is Love, and I guess that I can strongly relate in that Love or that Passion as well... And I can't help but Love Him (YHWH) and Love them (all three) anyway...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[~Zao~]

Cyril of Alexandria defined kephale (head) as source, like headwaters or fountainhead. “Christ is the kephale of man because man was made and brought to birth through Christ. The kephale (head) of women was man because he was her source when she was taken from his flesh. God is the source of Christ.”

Translating kephale to mean source is not hierarchical but cyclical: Christ is the source of man because Christ was God's agent in creation (John 1:3), and therefore participated in the creation of Adam. Man is the source for woman, as in Genesis 2:21-23, where God took the rib, or side, from the earth being and fashioned a female.

The image of God that remains is one of three equal, loving persons, and the image of humans reflect that equality and that love. The members of the Godhead are equal, and God made male and female in the image of God, so they also are made to be equal. The emphasis is on unity, not hierarchy.

 

[1213]

Since at least the time of Arius, heretics have arisen within the church saying that the Bible teaches that the Son is somehow less than the Father. Many of them have appealed to John's gospel in order to try to establish this teaching. One such text is John 5:19-20 which says:

19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. ...

There is also this more direct scripture:

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

I think it is not wise to try to explain that truth away, because it is said also:

"If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

 

[Mark51]

Compare John 14:28. This is only one of many scriptures that makes the distinctions.