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is the snake(cobra,...) the devil?

Feb 27, 2008
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Hello everyone!

as a christian, I have been told that people who use snakes in their rituals are devil worshippers for the snake is the serpent of the garden of Eden; it used to have another shape but because of the curse in Genesis, the serpent has been turned into a snake; I believed that and no one could really tell me about the exact shape of the serpent before the curse until I came across the verses below:

Revelation 12:9
This great dragon⿿the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world⿿was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.

Revelation 20:2
He seized the dragon⿿that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan⿿and bound him in chains for a thousand years.

in the verses above, it is the "dragon" that is mentioned; we know that the curse in Genesis turned the serpent into snake; we also know that a dragon looks somehow like a dinosaure; nowaday we don't see dragons nor dinosaures, they've all disapeared mysteriously; and if the dragon is the serpent as the Bible states, could it be that the real explanation of this disapearance is the one given in the Bible? have dinosaures and dragons been turned into snakes? because if we refer to the curse in Genesis, women still give birth with pain, man(in different parts of the world) still struggles to get his daily bread; so my question is: is the snake(cobra and others) the devil? are snakes the ones making people of the world to lie, steal, kill,...? is the cobra Lucifer? the devil=the snake??
 

hiscosmicgoldfish

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No, I don’t think so. The devil is called Lucifer in the bible which can be translated as Nachash, the shining serpent, and serpent is a reptile, and not necessarily a snake. The reference to the dragon is a link to what the devil was like, a reptile, but an angel. I think that the cherub was really there in the Garden of Eden, like it says in Ezekiel 28, and he wasn’t in the form of a snake, (IMO) but he was a serpent.
Satan was the covering cherub, and we can work out what a cherub is by examining Ezekiel closely. By comparing chapter one with chapter ten. Basically the cherub has the face of an Ox. So if the covering cherub was a reptile, he was probably also having the face of an Ox. That is where you get the classic image of the fallen cherub, a Draco, a dragon, yes with horns; an upright walking humanoid angel. Also, the cherubs in Ezekiel are said to have straight feet like calves feet. I believe that dinosaurs were created along with all the other animals, they just happen to be reptiles, but not all of them IMO.

‘Thus says the Lord God:
"You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
16 "By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.
18 "You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever."’"
 
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Papias

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For once I agree completely with busterdog. Snakes (including cobras) are just animals, and like all the animals in God's creation, are good. I've heard some Christians say that they kill snakes because they are of the devil - that kind of superstitious behavior only makes us, Christianity, and by extension the Gospel itself look bad.

Papias
 
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Metal Minister

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No, the serpent mentioned in Genesis is not a snake, but a "serpent" or possibly better translated as "dragon" as in the dragon that is Satan mentioned in revelations. When God says it will "eat dirt" He is describing Satan being cast down to the earth instead of living in heaven with God, and when He says "he will bruise your head and you his heel", its describing Jesus' death on the cross.
 
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SkyWriting

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Hello everyone!

as a christian, I have been told that people who use snakes in their rituals are devil worshippers for the snake is the serpent of the garden of Eden; it used to have another shape but because of the curse in Genesis, the serpent has been turned into a snake; I believed that and no one could really tell me about the exact shape of the serpent before the curse until I came across the verses below:

Revelation 12:9
This great dragon⿿the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world⿿was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.

Revelation 20:2
He seized the dragon⿿that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan⿿and bound him in chains for a thousand years.

in the verses above, it is the "dragon" that is mentioned; we know that the curse in Genesis turned the serpent into snake; we also know that a dragon looks somehow like a dinosaure; nowaday we don't see dragons nor dinosaures, they've all disapeared mysteriously; and if the dragon is the serpent as the Bible states, could it be that the real explanation of this disapearance is the one given in the Bible? have dinosaures and dragons been turned into snakes? because if we refer to the curse in Genesis, women still give birth with pain, man(in different parts of the world) still struggles to get his daily bread; so my question is: is the snake(cobra and others) the devil? are snakes the ones making people of the world to lie, steal, kill,...? is the cobra Lucifer? the devil=the snake??

No, snakes have no power. And mighty small brains.
But they taste OK in a pinch.
 
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Feb 27, 2008
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Now, I have other questions on the same subject:
1) As most people claim that the serpent in the garden of eden was influenced by the fallen angel lucifer to deceive Eve, this reminds me of Peter who spoke to Jesus but Jesus instead of rebuking Peter, he rebuked satan, so going back to the garden of eden, if the serpent was influenced by satan, why didn't God curse satan instead of cursing the serpent? for if God curse the serpent, then the serpent alone was the guilty one!
2) And it is said that the serpent like other animals, was made of the dust of the ground while lucifer was made of fire or light, now how come God made both of them differently, but people still claim that the serpent in the garden of eden is the fallen angel lucifer?
3) finally, in the book of revelation it says that the devil has been casted out of heaven and the inhabitants of the earth and the sea should be careful...
revelation 12:12 "Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time"

here, it is obvious that it is talking about the battle between Michael and the devil and the devil ended being casted out of heaven; now, please read me carefully here...it is obvious that the devil was casted out when the earth and the sea had inhabitants(how many people?) and if Adam and Eve were the first couple from whom mankind derives, it is obvious that the devil was in heaven when Adam and Eve listened to the serpent, and if the devil is the serpent, when did he ascend heaven? for he was cursed and turned into the snake we know and when the people started filling the earth, snakes were around and they are not the devil, so when exactly did the devil leave heaven? and before living heaven was man already around? for the Bible says "woe to the inhabitants of the earth, who were these inhabitants of the earth when the devil was casted out of heaven? was the devil already against God when man was made?
 
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ChetSinger

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I no longer think the serpent in Genesis 3 was an animal, even a possessed one. Instead, I think he was a spiritual being of serpentine shape. And that he was one of the sons of God who had stopped shouting with joy at the creation of the earth after he saw Adam and Eve put in charge of the place.

I've been persuaded by Michael Heiser's argument, which can be found here.
 
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mark kennedy

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I no longer think the serpent in Genesis 3 was an animal, even a possessed one. Instead, I think he was a spiritual being of serpentine shape. And that he was one of the sons of God who had stopped shouting with joy at the creation of the earth after he saw Adam and Eve put in charge of the place.

I've been persuaded by Michael Heiser's argument, which can be found here.

I think Serpent is really more of a proper name, Satan is called the 'Serpent' in the Revelation as well. The narrative was never really indicating an actual snake, names in the Bible can have a significance because of what they mean. Jacob was called Israel, Saul changed his name to Paul, Jesus even renamed Peter. It's a proper name, I've always thought that.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Metal Minister

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I think Serpent is really more of a proper name, Satan is called the 'Serpent' in the Revelation as well. The narrative was never really indicating an actual snake, names in the Bible can have a significance because of what they mean. Jacob was called Israel, Saul changed his name to Paul, Jesus even renamed Peter. It's a proper name, I've always thought that.

Grace and peace,
Mark

:thumbsup: I agree!
 
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wow! how come some of doubt that the serpent was an animal when the Bible itself states that:

Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made"

the Lord made the serpent while making the other animals and I was wondering how that serpent is called devil or satan in revelation; and also, if that serpent is the devil, when did he ascend to heaven for the Bible state that the devil was casted out of heaven; does history or theology have any record of the serpent ascending heaven after the sin in the garden of eden?...may be the meeting of the sons of God in the book of Job is a clue; but I would like to know the state of the relationship between God and the devil when man was made in the garden of eden, was the devil still a good angel?
 
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ChetSinger

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wow! how come some of doubt that the serpent was an animal when the Bible itself states that:

Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made"

the Lord made the serpent while making the other animals and I was wondering how that serpent is called devil or satan in revelation; and also, if that serpent is the devil, when did he ascend to heaven for the Bible state that the devil was casted out of heaven; does history or theology have any record of the serpent ascending heaven after the sin in the garden of eden?...may be the meeting of the sons of God in the book of Job is a clue; but I would like to know the state of the relationship between God and the devil when man was made in the garden of eden, was the devil still a good angel?
I'd like to explain myself by referring back to the link in post #11. The author has a PhD in Hebrew Bible and Semitic Languages, so he isn't a flake. His conclusion is controversial, to be sure. Nevertheless it makes sense to me, and is where I'm at right now.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Hello everyone!....

in the verses above, it is the "dragon" that is mentioned; we know that the curse in Genesis turned the serpent into snake;
That is a myth not supported by the Word of God in context or original language.
The "belly" is sheol, the belly of the earth in which the Satans -particularly the chief Abaddon/Destruction- hold souls captive who have died in sin through the dominion of Death/Corruption over the flesh -which is the dust.
It is not a serpent's belly.

The "dust" to "eat" feed upon is the curse God put the creation under, when Death/Corruption entered when Adam became defiled, and the entire kingdom Adam was made to rule came under the authority of sin, Death, Corruption, and Sheol below, when departed form the flesh.
death and corruption.
The Satans are not one and are not fallen angels, but a created class of evil spirits in heaven who test, tempt, and try the Holy angels and all Adam kind.
They have dominion over the flesh and torment mankind and the animal kingdom Adam was made to rule, through corruption/diseases, and they torment the departed souls/persons in Adam who descend to Sheol who are not repentant before they did. That is their legal right, and the authority is in Genesis 3.

Jesus redeems us from the curse by His blood, and we shall not see Death and we shall not go to Sheol, and we shall have our bodies of death and corruption regenerated/transformed when they are raised form the grave or changed at the rapture.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I no longer think the serpent in Genesis 3 was an animal, even a possessed one. Instead, I think he was a spiritual being of serpentine shape. And that he was one of the sons of God who had stopped shouting with joy at the creation of the earth after he saw Adam and Eve put in charge of the place.

I've been persuaded by Michael Heiser's argument, which can be found here.
The Satans are evil spirits in heaven. Enoch says so -and he said it by "Thus saith the LORD" before the earth was flooded.
Satan and his angels -unholy evil spirits in heaven- were never, ever, holy angels; and the Lake of Fire was prepared for them, as their kingdom of darkness, where their food forever will be to torment and afllict those whom they got the dominion over who never repented [those born in Adam , only can repent], and they will torment the demons [disembodied forever evil spirits on earth who were the children of the fallen Watchers and daughters of Adam], and the fallen Watchers.

Here is the foundational book for the doctrines of the satans as evil spirits in heaven, and the Lake of Fire prepared for them:The Book of Enoch, Translated by Robert H. Charles, 1912

And you will find complete corroboration of Enoch on the satans and the evil spirits in heaven in the Tenach and the NT.
 
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ChetSinger

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The Satans are evil spirits in heaven. Enoch says so...
My church doesn't consider Enoch canonical, so I approach it with caution, if at all.

That doesn't mean I consider everything in it wrong. I don't. But I believe that if it were worthy to be considered scripture it would be in our Bibles today.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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My church doesn't consider Enoch canonical, so I approach it with caution, if at all.

That doesn't mean I consider everything in it wrong. I don't. But I believe that if it were worthy to be considered scripture it would be in our Bibles today.
You were looking out for some other authority to convince you of things on more than one thread, and the authorities you were seeking are not Canonized authority.
The link you gave is not canon, but you are convinced by him of something, while all the time the entire foundational doctrines are all laid in "Enoch the prophet the seventh from Adam" and all those fully laid out foundational doctrines are corroborated in the Tenach and NT.


Satan is an entire class of evil spirits with one Chief. Their dwelling is in heaven until they are cast down, then they are bound up for the millennial reign; and then let loose for one more gathering up of a harvest of souls which will be food for them forever, to feast upon in the Lake of Fire.

The Lake of fire is prepared "for the devil and his angels". It is their kingdom of darkness, and they have to gather their harvest in for food forever while they have the time....

Their food is to torment and afflict and punish:
#1 fallen unrepentant Adam souls [cast into the Lake of Fire forever, "soul in body" [and forever in their own bodies which Jesus died to cover the sin of Adam for, and they are resurrected and/or cast in alive at His coming, who never repented of their own sins].
# 2 fallen holy angels =the Watchers who fell and fall.
# 3 the demons who are at this time roaming earth as evil spirits dwelling on earth, while the satans are evil spirits dwelling in heaven.

At this time, the demons are subject to the satans. CS Lewis got it right out of Enoch for his fiction book, The Screwtape letters, but he added his fiction to it: he read Enoch and Jasher before he incorporated things from them for his fictions.

To believe that Satan is a fallen holy angel named Lucifer
is an unbiblical myth without support in the Word of God, but many Christians think that is Bible doctrine based on nothing but hear-say and tradition.

Enoch lays it all out, and it is in Enoch as "Thus saith God the Great Glory from His throne", when he spoke to Enoch those words.
The evil spirits whose dwelling is in heaven are satans with one chief. They were made to do what they do, and for doing it well, they are rewarded with their own kingdom of darkness forever, in which they will afflict and torment their captives, which is their "food".

in 1 Kings A Satan, a lying spirit in heaven, serving God, seen in heaven:
1 Kings 22:
And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.20 And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken
Another Satan serving God by cursing King Saul after he rebelled -which rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft:
1 Samuel 16:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.
And Paul had an angel of Satan sent to "buffet him as a thorn in his flesh" to keep him from exalting himself above measure because of the abundance of revelations [understanding what is written in the Word]

Satan has to ask permission to test God's people, and Jesus said Satan had asked for Peter, to sift him like wheat, but Jesus prayed for him to make it through and to strengthen his brethren afterwards.

There are Holy angels whose eat and drink is to worship and praise God. The opposite is true of the Satans, who are unholy angels whose eat and drink is to curse the Adam creation they deceive with lies, and also the fallen Watchers who became subject to them by receiving their lies, and the demons -who serve them now, but will be tormented by them in the Lake of Fire.


At this time, before they are bounded in their kingdom of darkness, their food is to "eat dust", of this creation which is the dominion of Corruption/Destruction and Death that this creation is cursed by the Creator to be subject to the satans to, becasue of the defilement of its -now dead in spirit- firstborn son, the king, and the priest of it; Adam, and to hold the departed and captive unrepentant souls in Sheol, "in the belly of the earth", until the day of judgment.


Jesus comes to free us from the curse and we are no longer captive to that death which is spiritual, since we are born again, but we are still in the bodies of death that "satan" has dominion over because God gave it to "him" -the entire class of evil spirits called Satans.

By God's mercy and favor we can come boldly to the throne of grace and receive deliverance from the curses over our bodies, as we seek him for individual afflictions to be removed, but until Jesus comes to remove the curse from the earth and bind the Satans this present creation will be subject to Sin, Death and Corruption: They are "Satans" in the very "dust" of this present creation since the fall, and all the animal kingdom suffers from the same, and shall all be free when Jesus comes to reverse the Curse and bind the Satans and the "sons of God are manifest".

The only human being ever born since the fall of Adam in whom Satan -the whole class of evil spirits- has had "nothing in", is the New Man flesh body of the LORD Jesus Christ. His body could not corrupt because there was no "Sin/Corruption/Destruction" in His flesh of New Man creation.
John 14:30

King James Version


30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.



Satan is not a fallen holy angel, but an entire class of created evil spirits/princes who have been given the dominion over "the dust of this creation" and Sheol below, and over the Lake of Fire forever.
 
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