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I disagree obviously .
1Th 4:17 is the only scripture that uses the word rapture (the Greek word for rapture because it was written in Greek)
So, the bible teaches a rapture just not a pre-trib rapture as the verse places the rapture after the second coming which only happens when the trib has ended.
Really? Which greek word from that verse means “rapture@?
That's interesting and new to me.
But what about the Son of Man coming in the clouds? In the clouds is more specific than just meeting him 'in the air.'
'…29Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ 30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear inheaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.They will see the Son of Man coming on the cloudsof heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.… 'Matthew 24
What frustrates me is so many times, doctrine is just based on 1 verse or 1 small passage instead a compilation of very related verses and passages.
You are going out of order with the events.
This is definitely probably the most controversial topic of all Scripture.
It appears (for the most part) we agree about the events, but not the timing.
The trib is about Satan's wrath on Christians. God's wrath comes after the trib to punish the wicked world.
I have few issues with the pre-wrath view. I would point out that Revelation 6:12-17 depicts God's wrath before the trumpet judgments. That is the only problem Biblically that comes to my mind with the pre-wrath view.
Matthew 24:36-44
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Yeah. That's called the Rapture. Notice how it says things are going to be like they were when the flood came... eating, drinking, marrying, laughter etc... things clearly won't be like that during the Tribulation scripture and Jesus talks about... during the tribulation it will be horror after horror, trouble after trouble; hell on earth.
Thus it has to be before the tribulation.
But if you won't hear that, and you probably won't, have fun being blind.
I suppose if you ignore Paul writings and Jesus' teaching I may agree with you.
1Th 4:16.17 the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Matt 24:29-31
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Since God divinely spoke it through the authors of the canon of scripture :]. Revelation explains itself if taken as it is. We get in trouble when we try to add to or take away.
Lots of things used to be teachings of Christianity, until Pagan religion mixed in with the Church via Roman Catholicism. Teachings were lost, customs.
Yeah... when saints start praying to Mary and believing they can lose their salvation, and believe it's good to pay money to recieve atonement for sins, or go on crusade missions to repent instead of just actually confessing sins to God... yeah... pretty sure something's lost there. Not really getting the full picture if you catch my drift.Nothing is ever lost. Unless you plan on becoming Gnostic. That is the only early Christian tradition we know very little about, and thankfully so.
Yeah... when saints start praying to Mary and believing they can lose their salvation, and believe it's good to pay money to recieve atonement for sins, or go on crusade missions to repent instead of just actually confessing sins to God... yeah... pretty sure something's lost there. Not really getting the full picture if you catch my drift.
I do find a 21 year old rating my post Funny in a goading way amusing though. So thanks for that.
If it were the pot calling the kettle black, this would mean my theology were incorrect. And while I admit I may be wrong on smaller points here or there, my main theologies are not.Isn’t this post an example of the pot calling the kettle black? Is it really necessary to take a swipe at Roman Catholicism simply because you do not agree or understand RC doctrine. I don’t agree with them on some points of doctrine but I don’t rubbish them for their beliefs either.
I do find a 21 year old rating my post Funny in a goading way amusing though. So thanks for that.
If it were the pot calling the kettle black, this would mean my theology were incorrect. And while I admit I may be wrong on smaller points here or there, my main theologies are not.
My "swipe" at RC was not a swipe at all, but an in context discussion originally. I have many RC family and friends. The fact that they were and are in error remains true however, but that was not the main reason for my post. The original poster I addressed had made an assertion that because the rapture had not been a main teaching of Christianity for the length of Christianity itself, that somehow proved it was not a valid doctrine. And I contextually demonstrated that the RC church taught false doctrine for centuries, and since the majority of church history (especially in the west) is RC, it shows that common held or withheld doctrine does not make or break what is true doctrinally.
But now all this is getting both off topic, and personal. Not going to reply to anything regarding RC, not because I care about church toleration conformism, but because it's offtopic. If you feel you are in a position to judge me, feel free to pm me.
Yeah... when saints start praying to Mary and believing they can lose their salvation, and believe it's good to pay money to recieve atonement for sins, or go on crusade missions to repent instead of just actually confessing sins to God... yeah... pretty sure something's lost there. Not really getting the full picture if you catch my drift.
I do find a 21 year old rating my post Funny in a goading way amusing though. So thanks for that.
I present the Word of God within its context not media opinions.My posts are mostly facts. Most spiritual, media, and political opinions are not pleasing to God.
Are you referring to The Second Coming of Christ and The Parable of the Wheat and Tares?Yes. The wicked are the ones who are taken away. The righteous will remain on the earth with the Messiah.
And when, precisely was that?Except when Jesus said it would happen.
But yeah. Besides then.
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