Is the Pastor responsible in the deaths of 8 members?

[TreverSlyFox]

Pastor refused to allow the members of his church in South Carolina that had Concealed Carry Permits to carry a concealed weapon in his church. Nut case comes into the church with a gun and kills 8 members and the pastor.

Since the Pastor wouldn't allow his members to defend themselves does he have any moral, ethical or religious responsibility for the deaths of his members?

My answer is yes he is responsible for their deaths. Having taken away their possibility of defending themselves and not providing for their security he is responsible. Even Christ saw that his disciples were armed enough to defend themselves Luke 22:36-38.

 

[Arcangl86]

Why don't you place the responsibility on the person who deserves it. You know the person who actually decided to go into a church and shoot people.

 

[LionL]

The only person to blame for these deaths is the one who fired the gun.

 

[pdudgeon]

that would

Pastor refused to allow the members of his church in South Carolina that had Concealed Carry Permits to carry a concealed weapon in his church. Nut case comes into the church with a gun and kills 8 members and the pastor.

Since the Pastor wouldn't allow his members to defend themselves does he have any moral, ethical or religious responsibility for the deaths of his members?

My answer is yes he is responsible for their deaths. Having taken away their possibility of defending themselves and not providing for their security he is responsible. Even Christ saw that his disciples were armed enough to defend themselves Luke 22:36-38.

that would be the way the world sees it.
but actually those 8 worshipers and the priest were in the presence of God at the moment that they were shot down.
Satan is the one ultimately responsible here.
but God in His mercy saw to it that these people had the opportunity to be in His presence when their life ended, focused on Him.
it hardly gets any better than that.

 

[suzeequeue]

you know, this made me think of the five missionaries killed in Ecuador in 1956, was it? they had guns and intended to fire warning shots if necessary to try to scare the Waodani indians away, but they had agreed ahead of time not to kill them if they attacked. the missionaries were killed, even though they were armed.

one of the missonaries who died, before he flew away to try to reach the Waodani for Christ, his son asked him, if the Waodani attack you, will you shoot them? the dad said, no, son, we can't kill the Waodani. we're ready to die, they are not.

through these saints' deaths, the Waodani people came to Christ.

this young man who did this terrible act of shooting those at the prayer meeting is still alive. he still has a chance at redemption by the precious blood of our Lord Jesus. i think that's commensurate with what God would want. God bless you.

 

[now faith]

I believe a risk assessment should be done.
if you have members who are involved in politics or are a celebrity, then chances are they have stalkers.

With out being obvious a security team should be in place if your church has a high threat potential.

Not every one packing guns to Church,but members with military or law enforcement background ,seated at key locations.

John Hagee years ago had a gunman succeed in getting face to face with him during service.

The man fired 6 shots directly at Hagee but all missed.
Was it God's protection or a bad aim?
In any case I bet Hagee has a team in place.

It's sad we need such things as security teams and threat assessment,but nonetheless it's a reality of this
sin driven world.

 

[tulc]

Pastor refused to allow the members of his church in South Carolina that had Concealed Carry Permits to carry a concealed weapon in his church. Nut case comes into the church with a gun and kills 8 members and the pastor.

Since the Pastor wouldn't allow his members to defend themselves does he have any moral, ethical or religious responsibility for the deaths of his members?

My answer is yes he is responsible for their deaths. Having taken away their possibility of defending themselves and not providing for their security he is responsible. Even Christ saw that his disciples were armed enough to defend themselves Luke 22:36-38.

huh, following this line of reasoning isn't it really Gods fault? His house, His worshipers, His fault.
tulc(wonders if He should be charged as well?)

 

[RDKirk]

I believe a risk assessment should be done.
if you have members who are involved in politics or are a celebrity, then chances are they have stalkers.

With out being obvious a security team should be in place if your church has a high threat potential.

Not every one packing guns to Church,but members with military or law enforcement background ,seated at key locations.

John Hagee years ago had a gunman succeed in getting face to face with him during service.

The man fired 6 shots directly at Hagee but all missed.
Was it God's protection or a bad aim?
In any case I bet Hagee has a team in place.

It's sad we need such things as security teams and threat assessment,but nonetheless it's a reality of this
sin driven world.

My church hires a small number of off-duty police during main services (a number of Dallas-area congregations do), but also has a security ministry ("Men of Valor"--the MOV Team) who carry concealed, train together in organization protection, and coordinated both with each other and with the police. The pastor and elders do not want a bunch of uncoordinated citizens in the pews bouncing around with firearms.

 

[now faith]

That's a smart thing to do R.D.

It's a shame though,growing up even the unsaved had a reverence for God's House.

To think a fire fight could break out in Church???
We as a nation have sunken into a pit we may not dig out of.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Definitely not the pastor's fault. He was trying to keep a safe and peaceful environment so members could worship. We tend to try to find someone other than the culprit to blame. The only one responsible is the shooter.

 

[Goatee]

Guns should NOT be allowed in any church or place of worship!! What do you think God would think of such a thing?

I am in the UK and Guns are not a big thing like in the USA. Guns in a place of worship!!!! No way!!!!!

 

[tonnerkiller]

Pastor refused to allow the members of his church in South Carolina that had Concealed Carry Permits to carry a concealed weapon in his church. Nut case comes into the church with a gun and kills 8 members and the pastor.

Since the Pastor wouldn't allow his members to defend themselves does he have any moral, ethical or religious responsibility for the deaths of his members?

My answer is yes he is responsible for their deaths. Having taken away their possibility of defending themselves and not providing for their security he is responsible. Even Christ saw that his disciples were armed enough to defend themselves Luke 22:36-38.

Mt 26:52. Just to give some other bible verse...

Prisoners are not allowed to arm themselves, but some do get weapons some way. So if someone gets killed in jail, is the boss of the institution responsible, because he didn't hand out rifles to the inmates?

The pastor has no responsibility. Imagine what would have happened if everybody had a gun and had just started shooting. There'd be more than 8 dead now. There is no one reason to bring a gun to the house of God. Not one.

Responsibility is more on the side of those who brought the second amendment (right number?) to your constitution and those who refuse to drop it today. Here in Germany it is much harder for you to get a permit to own a firearm and know what? We don't feel less secure, I'd even say we feel more secure than the average American.

God bless
De Benny

 

[Goatee]

Yea, America has a massive problem with Guns. Every one and their cat has one over the pond!

 

[RDKirk]

Yea, America has a massive problem with Guns. Every one and their cat has one over the pond!

Totally wrong. We don't give guns to our cats. Only our dogs.

 

[HondaMan]

Many buildings don't allowed guns inside. Schools, manufacturing organizations, stores, hospitals, etc...Do they need to be held accountable everytime a sick person walks in and starts shooting?

 

[Swan7]

Colossians 3:2

Ephesians 5:11

Its so easy for us to run to back to worldly thinking/reasoning. Even I have this issue sometimes...
The victim is free from blame. the criminals of both this world and the one unseen are guilty. This act clearly was spiritual warfare.

 

[RDKirk]

Colossians 3:2

Ephesians 5:11

Its so easy for us to run to back to worldly thinking/reasoning. Even I have this issue sometimes...

And that was the point of Jesus' parable of "the unjust steward" (Luke 16:1-13). The unjust steward got into trouble because of his perfidy, but when caught he refused to turn over a new leaf and become an honest man. Rather, he doubled down in his dishonesty--so quickly that he caught even his master by surprise.

Jesus says that he was more clever in his own way than the children of light. That's because we tend to do just what you have said--when we get slapped for being the good guys, instead of doubling down as good guys, we say, "No more mister nice guy."

 

[^j^RaspberryAngel]

He's dead!
Whatever others think the answer is it no longer matters nor pertains to him.

Pastor refused to allow the members of his church in South Carolina that had Concealed Carry Permits to carry a concealed weapon in his church. Nut case comes into the church with a gun and kills 8 members and the pastor.

Since the Pastor wouldn't allow his members to defend themselves does he have any moral, ethical or religious responsibility for the deaths of his members?

My answer is yes he is responsible for their deaths. Having taken away their possibility of defending themselves and not providing for their security he is responsible. Even Christ saw that his disciples were armed enough to defend themselves Luke 22:36-38.

 

[Incredible Transformation]

you know, this made me think of the five missionaries killed in Ecuador in 1956, was it? they had guns and intended to fire warning shots if necessary to try to scare the Waodani indians away, but they had agreed ahead of time not to kill them if they attacked. the missionaries were killed, even though they were armed.

one of the missonaries who died, before he flew away to try to reach the Waodani for Christ, his son asked him, if the Waodani attack you, will you shoot them? the dad said, no, son, we can't kill the Waodani. we're ready to die, they are not.

through these saints' deaths, the Waodani people came to Christ.

this young man who did this terrible act of shooting those at the prayer meeting is still alive. he still has a chance at redemption by the precious blood of our Lord Jesus. i think that's commensurate with what God would want. God bless you.

I know a woman who knows the men that were killed and their wives. In fact one of her kids in named James Elliot Bensen. She was a missionary in the Philippines for awhile. She was abducted by terrorists in the Philippines and let go without being harmed. She now is 86 and has a prison aftercare ministry. We should stop thinking about guns and start thinking about how we can serve Christ with love and peace.

 

[Poster0]

Guns should NOT be allowed in any church or place of worship!! What do you think God would think of such a thing?

I am in the UK and Guns are not a big thing like in the USA. Guns in a place of worship!!!! No way!!!!!

Why would it be wrong to carry a gun inside a church building but not outside of it? I never understood why people see a church building as holy ground. Its just a building isn't it? Its my understanding that we should treat everyday as holy, not just Sunday or Saturday, and that everyplace should be holy. God is everywhere. If we treat the church building as something special then its like saying that we can act one way in church, but another way outside the church. Our heart is supposed to always be in worship and on holy ground, no matter where we are.