Is the Old Testament still in effect today?

[Jinn_Ku]

Voice your opinion and give a quick reason, if you like.

 

[wonderbread7]

We as christians are bound to the old testament and the commandments set forth by it. It is the new covenant in Christ that gives the ability to be forgiven for breaking those commandments.

 

[tinkerbell]

I put some - not all. Obviouisly you don't see us sacrificing lambs all the time and stuff like that, but even in all of the old testament laws and rituals that we no longer practice, there are very important and valuble lessons that are relevent even to today. So yes, in some ways, it is entirely in effect, in other ways no.

 

[marc]

The book of Hebrews explains the Old vs New very well. The old was an example to bring us to Christ. It's not gone, just different. They all did sacrifices to teach mankind what the blood was all about, because of it we recognize the lamb of God.
There is no real way to make an answer short. All I can say is the book of Hebrews hits it head on.

 

[aggie03]

I agree with Marc, read the letter to the Hebrews. The New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant. The Old has become our tutor in that we might still learn things from it, but it is no longer in effect, having been replaced by one that is better.

 

[Rafael]

The Spirit of the law is love. If we love we have fulfilled the law, but the effects of breaking the law of love can be horrible if sustained. We should not take the blood of Jesus in vain. The taking of it lightly is quite serious in scripture, and one should not use God's grace to sin.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

 

[aggie03]

I'm not quite sure what point you were trying to make about the Old Covenant with your last post raphe...would you mind explaining it for me?

 

[theseed]

The OT clearly defines what sin is, but many other laws deal with ceremony and animial sacrifice that are no longer need because Christ fulfilled the law for us. Also the OT is full of history about how God has worked with the Isrealites, how He created the world as well as the meaning of life (Ecclesiates) and much poetry and wisdom (Psalms and Proverbs).

 

[aggie03]

Useful for learning does not equate with still in effect. We must remember that if we put ourselves under any part of the Old Covenant, then we are bound to keep the whole thing.

 

[Rafael]

I'm not quite sure what point you were trying to make about the Old Covenant with your last post raphe...would you mind explaining it for me?

I see where you want to go with your question, but this really isn't a debate forum. The scripture in Romans is correct about love fulfilling the law of God, and Romans also goes on to say that faith in Jesus and His commandments establish the law. We are not justified by the law, and are not to think that anything other than the grace of God and faith in Jesus Christ saves a man. However, love does not break the law. Now if your talking about sabbaths and ordinances, these are fulfilled "in" Christ - abiding in Him, for He is the Sabbath that we rest from our works of righteousness in. The work of God is faith. There is much debate over keeping of the sabbath, but I think Romans even speaks to it quite well:

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the law is replaced or done away with. Fulfilled means to complete something, making it full. I will not teach any one to break God's law or encourage it.

Matthew 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[aggie03]

I'm not sure if you saw where I was going...I'm more confused now then I was before. I really didn't want to debate anything, I just wanted you to clarify the point you were trying to make.

 

[Rafael]

I agree with Marc, read the letter to the Hebrews. The New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant. The Old has become our tutor in that we might still learn things from it, but it is no longer in effect, having been replaced by one that is better.

Useful for learning does not equate with still in effect. We must remember that if we put ourselves under any part of the Old Covenant, then we are bound to keep the whole thing.

I'm not sure if you saw where I was going...I'm more confused now then I was before. I really didn't want to debate anything, I just wanted you to clarify the point you were trying to make.

Really, sorry for my inference if it offended or confused you...? If we put ourselves under the part of the law where it says thou "shall not kill" or "thou shalt not steal" - those are part of the Old Covenant, and the Word does not say replace them, but fulfil, as you stated in your first post. You first asked, after disagreeing with my post, going on to say that not any part of the Old Covenant would be in effect which is against what the scriptures I gave say, and then - now seem offended and confused that I explain as per your request......hmmmm?! The scriptures I gave are self explanatory about the subject, and the Webster's dictionary can give the meanings of "replace" and "fulfil" if there is any more confusion.

 

[aggie03]

Those commands that you've mentioned are also repeated as a part of the New Covenant - so we still have the same commands but are only under the obligation to follow them because they are part of the New Covenant.

I'm not offended . I just wanted to know how you thought the first verse you've quoted pertains to the Old Covenant. Would you mind explaining it again for me, just to clarify what you mean? I'd really appreciate that

 

[Rafael]

Those commands that you've mentioned are also repeated as a part of the New Covenant - so we still have the same commands but are only under the obligation to follow them because they are part of the New Covenant.

I'm not offended . I just wanted to know how you thought the first verse you've quoted pertains to the Old Covenant. Would you mind explaining it again for me, just to clarify what you mean? I'd really appreciate that

Ok, well Romans 13:8 says that love is the fulfilling of the law. If we love, we will not break any of the ten commandments of God - no killing, no stealing, etc., etc. I will post the next verse to it to clarify:

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

In verse 9 it confirms that loving our neighbor, the second commandment of Jesus, covers the law. Jesus' two commandments both pertained to love and its action of fulfilling the law - making it complete. Like the other verses I gave in reply to your first request, we can't teach others to break the law or we become least in God's Kingdom, but true love actually establishes law and good moral conduct, which the original post was referring to, if I remember that far back....
People do debate about the keeping of the sabbath day quite a bit, but the verse in Romans 14:5 tells me to let others choose to honor God with the day they pick. History shows this by Saturday and Sunday both being days off from work. There are two witnesses to the truth of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - those being the Christians and the Jews. Controversy still goes on about which days and ordinances are to be kept from the law, and that is why I expected debate. It is a topic of much misunderstanding and reading closely to all the scriptures pertaining to any topic with prayer will reveal the truth and deeper meaning. That is why I love to read and study the Bible, to search and know Him better through His Word.
The New Covenant - do a phrase search with those two words if you have a computer Bible and see what you get in the New Testament. It might surprise you. If you don't have a computer Bible with a search capability, there are two very excellent ones available for free download on the internet - the Online Bible, and E-Sword.