Is the game Grand Theft Auto a sin

SilverBlade said:

I find your argument completely one sided, as there's also sex, violence, theft, pillaging and insanity in the Bible. Based on your argument about why Christians shouldn't play games, read books or watch movies based on this kind of content (like you said) then we shouldn't be reading the Bible.

So, if Christians are to not view or read or play anything with violence, sex, pillaging, insanity..then my suggestion, toss your Bible, as the Bible as all of that as well, and I would challenge you to suggest that it does not.

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it would "appear", that your desire to do away with the Bible outweighs your desire for the truth of the Spirit ..or to put it another way , your desire to justify this game outweighs any concern for the truth of the Gospel?

michaelmynameIs said:

it would "appear", that your desire to do away with the Bible outweighs your desire for the truth of the Spirit ..or to put it another way , your desire to justify this game outweighs any concern for the truth of the Gospel?

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Actually, neither. I have no interest in this game. Not because of the content, but because of the time required to complete these kind of games..and that it's like $60.

What I'm trying to do is point out how ridiculous the argument is to not view/play/read something just because of it's content. Your argument is that because a video game/movie/book has sex, violence, insanity, etc, then a Christian shouldn't play/view/read it. My argument is..look at the Bible. The Old Testament is *full* of sex, violence, gore, and insanity. Using your own argument, then the Bible is automatically off limits, would it not? What would happen if a production company was to produce a high-budget series about the Bible, and not censoring anything? You would get something comparable to Game of Thrones.

I'm not trying to 'Do away with the Bible'. I'm trying to present another argument that Christians don't want to admit to. The Bible has violence, sex, gore and insanity. To 'eliminate' all movies/books/games with those in it, means eliminating the Bible from your shelf as well.

SilverBlade said:

Actually, neither. I have no interest in this game. Not because of the content, but because of the time required to complete these kind of games..and that it's like $60.

What I'm trying to do is point out how ridiculous the argument is to not view/play/read something just because of it's content. Your argument is that because a video game/movie/book has sex, violence, insanity, etc, then a Christian shouldn't play/view/read it. My argument is..look at the Bible. The Old Testament is *full* of sex, violence, gore, and insanity. Using your own argument, then the Bible is automatically off limits, would it not? What would happen if a production company was to produce a high-budget series about the Bible, and not censoring anything? You would get something comparable to Game of Thrones.

I'm not trying to 'Do away with the Bible'. I'm trying to present another argument that Christians don't want to admit to. The Bible has violence, sex, gore and insanity. To 'eliminate' all movies/books/games with those in it, means eliminating the Bible from your shelf as well.

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you continue to completely ignore the principles of a life walking in the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
you are in error to imply that it is not sinful .it is everything about fulfilling the fantasies of the desires of the flesh ..there is no neutral ground . it is demonically inspired .

the bible gives information about what God said and then what man did in response and shows us the error of walking according to our own fleshly reasoning.
as Christians we are called to be separate from worldliness .. we are IN the world but not OF the world . . No longer partakers of the evils around us .It is a matter of the heart .. how can a young person be separate (holy) if they fill their hearts and imaginations with every kind of thing contemptible in the sight of God ?
you cannot serve two masters .

michaelmynameIs said:

you continue to completely ignore the principles of a life walking in the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
you are in error to imply that it is not sinful .it is everything about fulfilling the fantasies of the desires of the flesh ..there is no neutral ground . it is demonically inspired .

the bible gives information about what God said and then what man did in response and shows us the error of walking according to our own fleshly reasoning.
as Christians we are called to be separate from worldliness .. we are IN the world but not OF the world . . No longer partakers of the evils around us .It is a matter of the heart .. how can a young person be separate (holy) if they fill their hearts and imaginations with every kind of thing contemptible in the sight of God ?
you cannot serve two masters .

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I think you are also ignoring your own argument. If something has violence, it shouldn't be read. The Bible has violence. Based on your argument, The Bible shouldn't be read by violent content.

I find your argument completely one sided

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Thank you! James 1:8

and I would challenge you to suggest that it does not.

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OK. Context. /thread

Does the Bible glorify and condone all of these sinful behaviors? No.

The Bible acknowledges all of these things and warns of them, encouraging us to be shameful of our trespass of the law and points us to the only source of true redemption, our Lord Jesus Christ.

To say that one is totaly unaffected by the content that one allows into one's mind and to SUGGEST that the Bible portrays these behaviors in the same manner as the secular media is either:

1-a direct, intentioned, malicious lie for who knows what purpose

OR

2-a statement made by one who has not yet realized the effect and possible damage these things are having on one's behaviors, actions and motivations.

Matthew 6:22,23 addresses these motives and how important they are.

May I suggest for you to sit down and read ONLY the Word of God for an entire week and see if you have a change in the level of peace you experience versus an entire week of ONLY non-stop jersey shore/exorcist/gta5/COD/horror film etc etc.

We are made to serve Him. When we are not, we are restless and upset.

But don't misunderstand me, friend. I have no intention of trying to stop you from playing games and watching videos. That is your choice. I simply share my experience so that maybe you or someone else has another viewpoint to base decisions on.

.

SilverBlade said:

I think you are also ignoring your own argument. If something has violence, it shouldn't be read. The Bible has violence. Based on your argument, The Bible shouldn't be read by violent content.

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i never said that -you did.your trying to verify your own argument by repetition.

your advocating a very wide and easy road.

go back and read what i have pointed out from the scriptures about the sin of the heart and the mind and the imagination.

and-
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—THINK about such things. ....

Now if anyone can reconcile filling your mind with the wickedness portrayed in that game..with the above verse, well,
i would in honesty consider anyone in need of some serious counseling .

michaelmynameIs said:

i never said that -you did.your trying to verify your own argument by repetition.

your advocating a very wide and easy road.

go back and read what i have pointed out from the scriptures about the sin of the heart and the mind and the imagination.

and-
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—THINK about such things. ....

Now if anyone can reconcile filling your mind with the wickedness portrayed in that game..with the above verse, well,
i would in honesty consider anyone in need of some serious counseling .

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So you'll be damned if you kill what is effectively a re-usable piece of code which is called upon again in the game layered by animation, or steal was is effectively is a piece of code layered by animation meant to represent a car and transport it from one place to another.

I guess all that played Super Mario Brothers and jumped on all of those turtles shall burn in hell.

manitouscott said:

Genster

Good idea. I got the game after not buying any for a long time because of their influence on me. The GTA series was too much of a tempation. I will say that GTA5 was way too much for a conscience directed by the Holy Spirit to bear and I had to rid my home of it.

To be fair, there are a lot of other media that must be lumped in with this. Any christian who says GTA5 is wrong but reads books like Twilight or Harry Potter or 50 shades of gray or watches 90% of the movies out there today is a hypocrite. THere is just as much sex, violence, theft, pillaging and insanity in movies and books as in this game. "Oh, but I am not acting it out when I watch a movie or book" arguments fall dead based on content being the real issue.

I would challenge christians who attack video games to look at their bookshelf and movie list and apply the same "holiness" to themselves.

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This is a strange argument. You seem to be saying that if I draw a line between morally acceptable entertainment unacceptable entertainment, I am being a hypocrite, unless I draw the line such that on one side there is media that is completely devoid of sex, violence, etc. and on the other there is everything else. If I choose to read a book or watch a move that contains some amount of violence, therefore, I cannot sincerely argue that there exists a point at which violence is so excessive or in such a context that it becomes a moral issue. This seems to be a pretty shortsighted view.

For example, you reference Harry Potter. So, let me compare HP to GTA. In HP, there is clear good and evil, which roughly corresponds with the general principles of good and evil in the real world (sure, there is the whole witchcraft argument, but setting that aside for now, I think my point stands). In GTA, there is no such sense of right and wrong; in fact the player is encouraged/required to engage in activities that are not only morally wrong, but illegal, in the real world. In HP (and similar stories, what violence there is is directed to a specific benevolent purpose: defeating the villain (who represents a greater evil than mere violence). In GTA, the violence is directed to a general malevolent purpose: satiating the main character's lust for violence, chaos, drugs and money. In HP and similar stories, the viewer is merely an observer of the mayhem and violence. In GTA, the player is an active participant.

That's just a start, but it is clear that there is huge difference between watching/reading Harry Potter or similar stories and playing GTA.

Now, in response to the argument that GTA involves mere pixels, so it can't be immoral, I would say this: Those pixels clearly represent something in the player's mind. Just like when I lust after a woman, the fantasy that I have of her in my mind is nothing more than neurons firing in a particular way, when I steal cars, kill prostitutes, and rape women in GTA, it is still just neurons firing a certain way in my brain. Jesus understood, 2000 years ago, before anyone even knew what neurons were or how they worked, that what we focus our thinking on ultimately shapes our attitudes and behaviors. If we concentrate our energy into fantasizing about sex that is off limits, then we ultimately develop the heart and mind of an adulterer. If we concentrate our mental energy in stealing virtual cars and killing virtual prostitutes, we are shaping our minds and hearts into that of a virtual thief and murderer, even if we never physically steal or kill. The reason that Jesus teaches us not lust and not to harbor resentments isn't about any sort of harm we do to the other person; it is about the harm that we are doing to ourselves. And, this harm does not depend on whether the object of our evil thoughts is real or virtual.

Let's face it; if our brains truly understood that the pixels on the screen were nothing more than pixels, then there would be no GTA or COD or even Pac Man. There would just be one video game, called "Move the Pixels" and it would be a horrible flop.

dies-l said:

Now, in response to the argument that GTA involves mere pixels, so it can't be immoral, I would say this: Those pixels clearly represent something in the player's mind. Just like when I lust after a woman, the fantasy that I have of her in my mind is nothing more than neurons firing in a particular way, when I steal cars, kill prostitutes, and rape women in GTA, it is still just neurons firing a certain way in my brain. Jesus understood, 2000 years ago, before anyone even knew what neurons were or how they worked, that what we focus our thinking on ultimately shapes our attitudes and behaviors. If we concentrate our energy into fantasizing about sex that is off limits, then we ultimately develop the heart and mind of an adulterer. If we concentrate our mental energy in stealing virtual cars and killing virtual prostitutes, we are shaping our minds and hearts into that of a virtual thief and murderer, even if we never physically steal or kill. The reason that Jesus teaches us not lust and not to harbor resentments isn't about any sort of harm we do to the other person; it is about the harm that we are doing to ourselves. And, this harm does not depend on whether the object of our evil thoughts is real or virtual.

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99% of gamers know the difference between reality and fiction. 99% of gamers also realize the consequences of those actions in the physical world and they would never steal a car, kill someone, rape someone or have anything to do with prostitutes. Just because the game is focused on stealing cars does not automatically make *me*, the real person, a car thief. Just because I kill someone in-game does not make automatically make me a killer in the physical world. Even though those pixels are meant to represent people, the fact is, *no one* thinks of them as real people, as they are scripts that are programmed. They are basically a long list of "If this, then that" statements. You can not kill something that isn't alive or not real.

Even if you could look into the heart of a gamer, you don't see hatred, or a killer, or a thief.

This is a strange argument

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I think what makes it strange is that it addresses all forms of entertainment that propose ideas that are contrary to the will and teachings of God, and if one values something that is contrary to His will, it is hard to let go of it for fear of losing one's identity. People naturally will fight for things that they value.

I am not on a campaign to end video games and secular entertainment, so you can rest easy.

I am here to tell others BASED ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE how these things can take our focus off of Him and begin to change our attitudes and behaviors little by little into those of the world. In today's world much discernment is needed when choosing what to put into our minds.

HP does not contain the stuff that GTA does, true. As a matter of fact, I found HP entertaining and fun. The fact that HP is aimed at young children (even though adults like it too) is one problem in my estimation. Presenting witchcraft as the vehicle for a movie plot (glorifying it) can be understood by adults but not likely by children unless proper guidance is given. HP also does not have a christian theme, where as there are other stories that contain sorcery that do have a christian theme.

You know, it will sound strange I am sure, but I wonder what we would watch/read/play if Jesus was physically present with us in the room. If you think He would approve, then by all means, have fun!

If you don't believe you are affected that way, Great! Go ahead and do what you feel is right. K?

manitouscott said:

I think what makes it strange is that it addresses all forms of entertainment that propose ideas that are contrary to the will and teachings of God, and if one values something that is contrary to His will, it is hard to let go of it for fear of losing one's identity. People naturally will fight for things that they value.

I am not on a campaign to end video games and secular entertainment, so you can rest easy.

I am here to tell others BASED ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE how these things can take our focus off of Him and begin to change our attitudes and behaviors little by little into those of the world. In today's world much discernment is needed when choosing what to put into our minds.

HP does not contain the stuff that GTA does, true. As a matter of fact, I found HP entertaining and fun. The fact that HP is aimed at young children (even though adults like it too) is one problem in my estimation. Presenting witchcraft as the vehicle for a movie plot (glorifying it) can be understood by adults but not likely by children unless proper guidance is given. HP also does not have a christian theme, where as there are other stories that contain sorcery that do have a christian theme.

You know, it will sound strange I am sure, but I wonder what we would watch/read/play if Jesus was physically present with us in the room. If you think He would approve, then by all means, have fun!

If you don't believe you are affected that way, Great! Go ahead and do what you feel is right. K?

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What makes it sound strange is that it is oversimplified to the point of absurdity. GTA is not morally problematic merely because it contains violence and crime. It's what it does with the violence and crime that makes it problematic.

Personally, I think Jesus would gladly read along with me most of the things I like to read and I'd be glad to have him there. I couldn't say that about GTA. But, I don't think I'd even use that as the standard to judge it by. Not every morally good thing I do is something I would do with Jesus in the room ( any married person should know of at least one example).

SilverBlade said:

99% of gamers know the difference between reality and fiction. 99% of gamers also realize the consequences of those actions in the physical world and they would never steal a car, kill someone, rape someone or have anything to do with prostitutes. Just because the game is focused on stealing cars does not automatically make *me*, the real person, a car thief. Just because I kill someone in-game does not make automatically make me a killer in the physical world. Even though those pixels are meant to represent people, the fact is, *no one* thinks of them as real people, as they are scripts that are programmed. They are basically a long list of "If this, then that" statements. You can not kill something that isn't alive or not real.

Even if you could look into the heart of a gamer, you don't see hatred, or a killer, or a thief.

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If nobody really thinks of the pixels as people to be killed, raped, or stolen from, I wonder why such games are so popular. It's hard to find games for my kids that are not rated T or M, because the games that sell are laden with sex and violence. GTA is perhaps one of the most extreme examples. If nobody really thought of the game as portraying what it seems to portray, why all the violent games?

SilverBlade said:

So you'll be damned if you kill what is effectively a re-usable piece of code which is called upon again in the game layered by animation, or steal was is effectively is a piece of code layered by animation meant to represent a car and transport it from one place to another.

I guess all that played Super Mario Brothers and jumped on all of those turtles shall burn in hell.

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you stil have not given ANY scriptural reference in support of your arguments .this is after all a bible believing christian forum ..

we have given you many references .. but you say ..BUT BUT But .. am i to take you opinion over the word of God ? you misdirect the questions in regard to the sin of the heart and the imagination which is where all sin is seeded and try to make it about pixels . it is not about pixels sorry . it is about obedience to the Holy Spirit . and to know what is right and not do it .. is sin . is is right to obey the Holy Spirit .. yes !

Genster said:

(I hope you know about this game)

My parents let me play the game Grand Theft Auto as a kid because they trusted I wouldn't reenact the things I did on the game. The new grand thief auto game is out, 5.

I really want to get the game because it is very fun, but I know the content in the game is very wrong.

It's just a game. I know the things that happen in the game are wrong. I would never reenact anything in the game.

Would I be practicing sin by playing this game? I am tempted to buy it, but I would also feel guilty playing it, now that I have grown a lot in faith. What are your thoughts?

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Your last paragraph has the right idea.

It sounds like your heart isn't really in it anymore anyway. That is something in the past you are about ready to leave there.

What follows is just thought stream. You may just want to hit the back button - now.

Can the things of sin be any help to the righteous or toward righteousness? Could it be that you have just read your “report card” and found a “needs improvement” mark? You might want to ask God to give you a heart for a replacement interest.

Could the resources (time and money) be better directed to fellowship and service? I read a book by a pastor whose mission was in the dark underbelly of Chicago. He made a point of spending some time in the game rooms to be accessible and get his mark (“rev”) on the high score charts. If this isn’t your calling (to be a point of contact for souls in such a setting) you do well to not be there.

Does Philippians 4:8 offer fitting advice? “Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.”

Which angels cheer as you play the game?

God will bless as you sort this out.

Ecclesiastes 8:1
Who is as the wise man? and who knoweth the interpretation of a thing? a man's wisdom maketh his face to shine, and the boldness of his face shall be changed.

2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (By beholding we become changed...)

OldStudent said:

Your last paragraph has the right idea.

It sounds like your heart isn't really in it anymore anyway. That is something in the past you are about ready to leave there.

What follows is just thought stream. You may just want to hit the back button - now.

Can the things of sin be any help to the righteous or toward righteousness? Could it be that you have just read your “report card” and found a “needs improvement” mark? You might want to ask God to give you a heart for a replacement interest.

Could the resources (time and money) be better directed to fellowship and service? I read a book by a pastor whose mission was in the dark underbelly of Chicago. He made a point of spending some time in the game rooms to be accessible and get his mark (“rev”) on the high score charts. If this isn’t your calling (to be a point of contact for souls in such a setting) you do well to not be there.

Does Philippians 4:8 offer fitting advice? “Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.”

Which angels cheer as you play the game?

God will bless as you sort this out.

Ecclesiastes 8:1
Who is as the wise man? and who knoweth the interpretation of a thing? a man's wisdom maketh his face to shine, and the boldness of his face shall be changed.

2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (By beholding we become changed...)

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I have sort of a neutral view here, as a Christian gamer. To the OP, you mentioned how you are still a kid, and you realize it is wrong. First of all, M rated games are not meant to purchased by, or for, anybody under the age of 17. Second, you mentioned your reluctance to play it because of the moral content, so that should be another clue to stay away.
Is it a sin? You need to decide if you feel convicted about it in your heart.
Personally I don't feel guilt about defeating pixels on a screen when I play a game, as long as they are not representing a good character. Most M rated games I have played involve fighting evil characters such as aliens (Halo), terrorists (Rainbow Six), or zombies (Resident Evil, Dead Rising). But Grand Theft Auto has loads of content besides just shooting. In certain parts of Grand Theft Auto 4 (the first and probably last GTA game I've owned) you even have to choose which of your "friends" to murder. At the end of the game, *spoiler alert*, your character does face consequences for his actions. However, in my opinion, it's not worth going through all the negative content, to get to that point.

This thread reminds me of this: Rooster Teeth · Heavenly Ends

Wow, we will never reach a consensus. I am ambiguous, but now as a Christian woman and hopefully soon a mother, I am striving more for the traditional. When I was a kid, the most violent game was mortal combat and street fighters.
I Have never had any desires to kill anyone (but I wished I could kick and punch like they did, for self defense lol).

I do not like that the games now seem to promote violence (along with the drive by media). I wouldn't buy the game for my kid but if he plays it at a friend's I won't get mad, I will have a chat about it.

I dont believe in prohibiting things either, it makes it worst (which is why I never liked churches that told me how to dress).

Its a fantasy game but it isn't your fantasy life.

would you play it if Jesus was sitting next to you?

There's your answer