Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 24, 2012

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

What mountain is Jesus talking about in Matt 21?

Click to expand...

x141 said:
Abraham sent her away ... it's a leaves of the fig tree thing ...

Not sure how that answered the question I asked

....

x141 · Aug 24, 2012

LittleLambofJesus said:
[/size]

What mountain is Jesus talking about in Matt 21?

Matthew 21:21 And Jesus answering said to them, "verily I say to ye
If ye may have faith and may not doubt, not only this of the fig-tree shall ye do,
but even if to this mountain ye may say, 'be lifted up and be cast into the sea', it shall come become

This mountain in Reve 8:8 appears to be symbolizing the OT Mt Sinai, IMHO. Any thoughts on that?
[FWIW, I and a lot of others view OC Jerusalem and it's temple as "Babylon" in Revelation]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Revelation 8:8 And the second messenger trumpeted,
and as it were a great mountain with fire burning was cast into the sea,
and the third of the sea became blood,

The entire word reveals one truth or one son who becomes clean. It is this progression or process of time that brings the harlot or the bride who has many lovers, unfaithful, to desolation that the truth might be revealed in us, that by this revealing we might be gathered together in one. Revelation is the revealing of the Father in the son, the truth of this reality that happened in him and is now happening in us as well.

It is the soul or woman that is becoming clean ... our perception.

The mountain cast into the sea is the law or our perception of the law of life, just as the God at the beginning of the Bible is not our Father but the perception of our Father.

OC is a picture of Adam, the natural Israel or son of God. The calling out of Egypt of a son, is likened to the calling out of darkness of light. It is all speaking about the son and our identity in relationship to him according to the process (egypt, wilderness, land ... Saul, David, Solomon ... Proverbs,
Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon), strewn about the Bible in every concievable way, limited to only the limits we put on his word with our soul.

Hagar and her son are as Bilhah and her son, just a different facet of the same truth that are leading to the same one son. It is the harlot that rules over all the kings of the earth until she becomes desolate. Everything that happened to Israel, the picture of the first born (not the literial nation) is happening in us, just as being a stranger in a land that is not your own, this land being between our ears ... a strange fire, strange flesh etc.

Jerusalem is like Job's wife, it is the bride of christ, both within us, soul and spirit and all of us as a whole to Christ as Christ is to the father, it's of order not of gender.

Coming out of Babylon is coming up out of a mentality of "I am no widow, Adam is not truly dead, but like a beast, is not but yet is. the serpent on a pole and the wanderings between two mountains or sons.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 24, 2012

x141 said:
Jerusalem is like Job's wife, it is the bride of christ, both within us, soul and spirit and all of us as a whole to Christ as Christ is to the father, it's of order not of gender.

Coming out of Babylon is coming up out of a mentality of "I am no widow, Adam is not truly dead, but like a beast, is not but yet is. the serpent on a pole and the wanderings between two mountains or sons.

Interesting analogy using Job's wife! Thanks

http://www.christianforums.com/t5617198-60/#post36140207
She who sits as queen, not widow, never mourns

Revelation 18:7 As much as she did glorify herself and did revel, so much torment and sorrow give to her,
because in her heart she saith, 'I sit a queen, and a widow I am not, and sorrow I shall not see';

Kindgdom Bible Studies Job
JOB

I never paid much attention to Job. I knew that he was an overcomer. I knew that he was tested and tried and proven to the utmost extremity and I knew that he passed the test. So I praised God for Job.

The book of Job is written in Hebrew in the style of a poetic drama, or stage play. The first two chapters, which constitute the introduction, are in prose. Beginning with the third chapter and continuing on through 42:6 the form is poetical. From 42:7 to the end of the book it is again prose, providing as an epilogue a few facts concerning Job's later life.

The book of Job belongs to a type of literature known as Wisdom, common in the Near East, a special kind of writing based upon practical observations about the mystery of life — and how to live it. Its modern counterpart would be philosophy. But Hebrew Wisdom writing was often in the form of a fable, or a riddle, or a proverb — most often presented in the form of poetry or poetic drama.

doc8645 · Aug 25, 2012

Ex.24:4 "and Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and built an altar under the Mount, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel." Ex.34:27 "And the Lord said to Moses, write thou these words, for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and Israel." Lev.26:46 "These are the decrees, the laws and the regulations that the Lord established on Mount Sinai between Himself and the Israelites through Moses."

IMHO- There is quite a bit of difference between covenants, laws, and regulations, as "dictated" to Moses rather than "The Ten Commandments" written by the Finger of God! Even when Moses threw down the tablets in anger, and the Lord chastized him, he didn't say write them down, but had Moses go back up for God to write them again Himself! To me that seems pretty clear He hallowed and Sanctified only those "10 Commandments" for everyone, no matter what covenant is in force.
Also, just a small point to consider; everyone seems to make it a big deal about not much mention of the Sabbath in the NT. What some seem to forget is that most of the preaching and teachings were by and for instruction and correction by and for the Israelites which had far less problems with the Sabbath than we do, even Paul teaching the gentiles-he didn't do it after the Sabbath, but told them to come back next Sabbath, so they kept it also.

But, each according to their own heart about what and how to praise the Lord.

Blessings
doc8645

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 27, 2012

doc8645 said:
Ex.24:4 "and Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and built an altar under the Mount, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel." Ex.34:27 "And the Lord said to Moses, write thou these words, for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and Israel." Lev.26:46 "These are the decrees, the laws and the regulations that the Lord established on Mount Sinai between Himself and the Israelites through Moses."

IMHO- There is quite a bit of difference between covenants, laws, and regulations, as "dictated" to Moses rather than "The Ten Commandments" written by the Finger of God! Even when Moses threw down the tablets in anger, and the Lord chastized him, he didn't say write them down, but had Moses go back up for God to write them again Himself! To me that seems pretty clear He hallowed and Sanctified only those "10 Commandments" for everyone, no matter what covenant is in force.
Also, just a small point to consider; everyone seems to make it a big deal about not much mention of the Sabbath in the NT. What some seem to forget is that most of the preaching and teachings were by and for instruction and correction by and for the Israelites which had far less problems with the Sabbath than we do, even Paul teaching the gentiles-he didn't do it after the Sabbath, but told them to come back next Sabbath, so they kept it also.

But, each according to their own heart about what and how to praise the Lord.

Blessings
doc8645

That is what I say

....

boldlion · Oct 19, 2012

Honouring the Sabbath Day is not an option !

disciple1 · Oct 25, 2012

1 Corinthians chapter 10 verse 23,24
Everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible but not everything is constructive, Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.
Matthew chapter 12 verse 7, 8
If you had known what these words mean, I desire mercy not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.
Galatians chapter 2 verse 16
Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
Galatians chapter 2 verse 4
This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.
I don't know if I presented this clearly.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 25, 2012

PROPHECYKID said:
There is a thread on this topic in general theology. The name is "Chariots of Fire". I invite you to come and make your contributions there. It seems to be boring here.

Very interesting!
Unfortunately it is now closed

http://www.christianforums.com/t6741689/
Chariots of Fire

Before I begin, this thread is about the sabbath day..........

From what I understand, this movie is a true story.....I don't follow the Olympic games with detail......Eric Liddel was one of the fastest runners in the world and when he got to the Olympic games to run, they told him that his race was to take place on a Sunday. He was a God fearing man and his faith was much to be admired. He elected to decline his position to run because he did not want to break the sabbath. He chose to keep it Holy. One of the other runners came up with the idea to let Liddell take his place in another event on a different day. Liddell won the gold medal...........My only problem with all of this is the fact that if this Eric Liddell had known the truth about the sabbath day, he could have ran in his event on Sunday against his rival Harold Abrahams.

The Sabbath is saturday, the Seventh day of the week. It always has been and always will be. Sunday is an institution by the Catholic Church and they say it is their "mark" of authority. My question to all Sunday keepers is this.........Why? Why do you go to church on Sunday instead of the real Sabbath day Saturday? Jesus himself warned us against people that would make up their own doctrines and teach them as the commandments of God.......So why do you follow a man-made commandment rather than following God? And also, please show me biblically where the Bible tells us Sunday is the Sabbath. Please don't quote things like "the law has been nailed to the cross" because I know there will be some that post that.....but you need to understand that the law that was nailed to the cross was the ceremonial laws and for the feasts and sabbaths, not God's sabbath. It was Moses' law that was nailed to the cross, not God's law......not God's sabbath.......or any of the other 9 for that matter. So please, tell me why you go on Sunday and please prove to me that Sunday is the sabbath.....FROM THE BIBLE! This is the beginning of a bible study, I am not stepping on anyone's toes for going on Sunday, I just want to study this controversial subject. God bless everyone....

Gentlewarrior01 · Nov 9, 2012

k4c said:
Should Christians keep the seventh day Sabbath holy?

Are we being deceived by not remembering the Sabbath?

The Bible says that the New Covenant will have two aspects. One, God forgives us of our sins, which are the violations of the law, which include the forth commandment. 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Two, God will write His law on our hearts.

We know from Scripture that keeping of the Ten Commandments saves no one, but rather, they point out our need for a Savior. It's God's grace that saves us.

This tells me that we don't keep the commandmends to get saved, but rather, once we are saved we will keep them because we love God and neighbor.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Shall we break the law of God because we are now saved?

God tells us that the keeping of the law is motivated by love for God and love for neighbor.

Matthew 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?'' Jesus said to him, " `You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the first and great commandment. "And the second is like it: `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.''

How we love God and neighbor is defined in the Ten Commandments.

The first four teach us what pleases God and the last six teaches us what will please others.

How does God write these two aspects of the law on our hearts.

Under the Old Covenant they were commanded to keep the commandments or die.

Under the New Covenant we are free from that fearful aspect of death for not keeping the law and are now under grace, in other words, God frees us from the law and its penalty so that we now are free to obey or not obey without fear. This will open us up to obey God from the heart.

Ephesians 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,

Look at it this way. Lets say a guy hires a maid, she comes to his house twice a week. The guy puts up a list of chores for her to do, which entail, laundry, dishes, cooking and cleaning. If she does not do these things she will risk the chance of being fired. As she begins to work for him, several months go by when they begin to fall in love and get married. The first thing she does when she comes home from her wedding is she removes the list of chores. Does this mean she will no longer do these things? No, it means she does not need the list to tell her what to do because she loves her husband.

God takes away the law so that we can keep the law because we love Him. If I saw that maid doing all the house work for free I would have to ask why she was doing it. Her response would be, because she Ioves him.

If someone asked me why I was keeping the Sabbath, since we are no longer under the law but under grace, I wound have to say, because I love Him.

The Ten Commandments have not been done away with, we just have a different relationship to them now. They go from being written on stone to being written on our heart through freedom and love.

Listen to how the Ten Commandments are referred to by Paul.

Ephesians 6:2 "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise:
Exodus 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

Listen to how Jesus refers back to them.

Luke 18:18-21 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?'' So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. "You know the commandments: `Do not commit adultery,' `Do not murder,' `Do not steal,' `Do not bear false witness,' `Honor your father and your mother.' '' And he said, "All these I have kept from my youth.''

Jesus was even concerned about the Sabbath forty years after His resurrection.

Matthew 24:16-20 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. "Let him who is on the housetop not come down to take anything out of his house. "And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those with nursing babies in those days! "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

Jesus even said He was Lord of the Sabbath and how the Sabbath was made for man.

These are not words that do away with the law or the Sabbath, but rather, confirm the Sabbath and the law.

What are your thoughts?

GW >> The problem here lies in in several facts. One, the Law was part of the covenant that God made with the Jews. No Gentile was obligated to keep the covenant unless they were willing to become circumcised, and be subject to all the laws that the Jews were subject to. In other words, if a Gentile had a yearning for God, he had to become a Jew before he could be part of the covenant.

Two, the intention of the Law was to expose the utter sinfulness of man as Gal 3:19 points out on the Amplified Bible:

"What then was the purpose of the Law? It was added [later on, after the promise, to disclose and expose to men their guilt] because of transgressions and [to make men more conscious of the sinfulness] of sin; and it was intended to be in effect until the Seed (the Descendant, the Heir) should come, to and concerning Whom the promise had been made. And it [the Law] was arranged and ordained and appointed through the instrumentality of angels [and was given] by the hand (in the person) of a go-between [Moses, an intermediary person between God and man]."

Notice the conjunction "until" the Seed should come. Of course that seed is Christ, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to life through the gospel, (2Ti 1:10). He did that by reconciling man back into the everlasting arms of God (2Cor 5:19) through His death and resurrection.w

The law then ends "until" Christ came because He moved on to take us to the next level of God's eternal purpose.

Finally, the Old Covenant was declared obsolete by the coming of the NEW COVENANT (Heb 8:13). This means that we have a brand new way of living because the Law is now inside of our hearts, which is one of the terms of the New Covenant (Jer 31:33)

So the Sabbath which was a shadow of better things to come has become a reality in the Person of Jesus Christ (Matt 11:28) because He finished God's plan of redemption in His death, His resurrection, His ascension, and in the sending of the Holy Spirit.

Each of us is now a temple (or a sanctuary) of God (1Cor 6:19) where our sins and iniquities ARE NO LONGER REMEMBERED because God has finally made us His by the covenant blood shedding of God the Son, (Heb 8:12, 10:17).

I'm willing to discuss this further if you like...

disciple1 · Nov 9, 2012

Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
John chapter 15 verse 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as your self.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
James chapter 2 verse 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
No one obeys the law.
Galatians chapter 5 14 verse
You who are trying to be justified by law have alienated yourselves from Christ you have fallen away from grace.

Gentlewarrior01 · Nov 9, 2012

GW >> And your point is what?

disciple1 · Nov 9, 2012

Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoner's by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.

Gentlewarrior01 · Nov 9, 2012

disciple1 said:
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoner's by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.

GW >> You are repeating what I have already said in my response to the original post. Please address your views with those who disagree with you.

Gentlewarrior01 · Nov 10, 2012

k4c said:
No takers, no words of wisdom from the Bible scholars of the day?

Most people in Churches today are being taught that the Ten Commandments have been nailed to the cross but when you ask them if stealing, lying, adultery, using the Lord's name in vain, having other Gods and so on are sinful for God's people today they will say they are but in the same breath they say they have been nailed to the cross.

Is the fourth commandment part of the Ten Commandments?

Can the fourth commandment be removed from stone to make only nine now?

When God says we break all the commandments when we break one, is He referring to only nine of them or ten of them?

What are your thoughts?

GW >> Have you ever heard of the new covenant? Look at the terms in Jer 31 and learn that the Law of God has finally reached its purpose in Jesus Christ, therefore those who belong to Him have the entire Law written in their hearts by the Holy Spirit.

God has always been after relationships. The coming of God the Spirit inside of us is what God was after since the beginning. Please learn what it means to be the temple of the Spirit of God. You will be surprised to know how much better is to know the Lord on a personal basis than simply trying to follow some rules.

disciple1 · Nov 10, 2012

Exodus chapter 20 verse 10
but the seventh day is a Sabbath to tho Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.
Exodus chapter 35 verse 3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.
So if you want to follow the Sabbath you can't have your stove on or refrigerator, because that would cause people to work, or do you just want to keep a little of the Sabbath, which brings me to my original post.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoner's by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
This is what we need to do.
James chapter 2 verse 13
Judgment without mercy will be shown anyone who hasn't been merciful mercy triumphs over judgement.

Gentlewarrior01 · Nov 10, 2012

disciple1 said:
Exodus chapter 20 verse 10
but the seventh day is a Sabbath to tho Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.
Exodus chapter 35 verse 3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.
So if you want to follow the Sabbath you can't have your stove on or refrigerator, because that would cause people to work, or do you just want to keep a little of the Sabbath, which brings me to my original post.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoner's by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
This is what we need to do.
James chapter 2 verse 13
Judgment without mercy will be shown anyone who hasn't been merciful mercy triumphs over judgement.

GW >> I don't follow the Sabbath. I think I made myself very clear on that.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 10, 2012

Originally Posted by k4c

No takers, no words of wisdom from the Bible scholars of the day?

Perhaps there are none of those around right now

Gentlewarrior01 · Nov 10, 2012

Only ignorant people can believe that..

denim · Nov 10, 2012

k4c said:
Should Christians keep the seventh day Sabbath holy?

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Gal 3:10

Essentially what it means is God's standard and quality control is 100% perfection. Even if there is a 0.0000001% blemish, it just won't cut it. That is why the Lamb Without Blemish had to die for us.

"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is GUILTY OF ALL. " James 2:10

For those who like to pick and choose OT laws like observing Sabbath, giving tithes and circumcision and yet unable to fulfil the rest of the 600 plus law (which they probably cannot even if they try) - The bible says these people are under a curse.

Under the New Covenant, there is no more tithe (replaced by giving without compulsion), circumcision nor unclean food nor Sabbath nor ceremonial cleansing etc. Everything is no longer physical. They are in the heart - circumcision in the heart , law written on our hearts, giving as purposed in our hearts etc.

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God." Romans 2:28-29[/FONT]

Gal 2:11-13 records an incident at Antioch where apostle Paul opposed and reprimanded Peter and Barnabas for withdrawing from associating with
Christians Gentiles due to fear of Christian Jews. Peter and Barnabas had tried to disassociate themselves from the uncircumcised Gentiles, in accordance with OT Law.

The OT Law was a precursor, temporary guardian (or tutor) till the coming of Christ. When Jesus came to fulfil the law, the OT law was rendered nullified. We were no longer saved by the Law but we were saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." Gal 3:24-25

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Eph 2:8)

Christians should never attempt to selectively observe OT Law and put themselves back in bondage under the Law of Sin and Death negating the good work of Jesus.

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" Rom 8:2

The bible tells us to be " Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." Gal 5:1

We should never resubmit ourselves back to the bondage of the Law of Sin and Death when Christ has already set us free.

How then shall we live our lives without rules, regulations and law?

Our law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is written in our hearts (Heb 10:16) and the Holy Spirit shall guide us.

"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." John 16:13

bugkiller · Nov 14, 2012

boldlion said:
Honouring the Sabbath Day is not an option !

Really?How does one come to such a conclusion?

bugkiller

Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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