Is the Depiction of Muhammad by Non Muslims Allowed in the Quran?

[JJWhite]

Do note that I find it very sad that some Muslims seem to get more upset at a mockery of Muhammad (pbuh) than a mockery of God Himself... or at least they voice their objection more?

 

[Booko]

I've heard discussions amongst scholarly people regarding whether it would have been okay to have drawn the character of Muhammad (pbuh) and his close friends in the cartoon movie 'Muhammad', which was about his life.

Has anyone discussed the painting of Muhammad that hangs in the U.S. Supreme Court? It's respectful in the sense that it's part of a larger display of great influences on law across humanity, and I generally agree with Muslims here who say it would be preferable to have maybe a great calligraphic section from the Qu'ran instead of Muhammad, but is it really that offensive? It's not like Muslims made the picture and no one here is using it for idolatrous purposes.

I think most fear that images of any of the prophets or righteous, if made, could either be disrespectful or venerated in an undue manner.

I don't know if any of my fellow Baha'is have mentioned this or not, but we have the same sort of prohibition regarding the Bab and Baha'u'llah, and for the same reasons. But the prohibition would only apply to Baha'is.

I sometimes joke no one need worry about tedious movies about the life of either of our Prophets, since we can't do stage versions or anything like that either.

 

[Booko]

Muhammad didnt want to be exactly worshipped but there are enough verses in koran to suggest that Following mohammad and not criticizing mohammad are some of the prerequisites to open Allah's treasures in heaven.

Yes, Christ said much the same thing. ("No one comes to the Father but by Me." for starters.)

Prophets seem to do that sort of thing fairly often. Then again, if you're working from premises like this, it makes logical sense that they would say such things:

1. God exists and is omniscient.
2. There is an afterlife where one's condition will depend on whether one tried to live a good life.
3. A good life is defined by what God says a good life is.
4. God communicates His idea of what a good life is by means of Prophets.

The conclusion (sorry for the lack of formality here) from premises like these is that doing what a Prophet says is good for one's next life. Of course the contrapositive is also true, which is not doing what a Prophet says is not good for one's next life.

In the context of religious premises like these, it would be illogical for a real Messenger from God not to make the claim that what He says must be followed.

The sticky wicket of course is who (if anyone) is a real Prophet, eh?

 

[Booko]

I don't get it.

Maybe you'll get this. It was the 2nd hit on a Google hit for "Jesus." No other search terms.

I'm sorry but I find this very offensive. btw I'm not a Christian.

(P.S. If any of the mods want to delete this link because of the deplorable content, I understand fully. Hopefully the point will be made before that happens though. Thanks.)

 

[Chesterton]

He became the unofficial poster-boy (poster-deity?) for the Master Race.

What does that mean?

Maybe you'll get this. It was the 2nd hit on a Google hit for "Jesus." No other search terms.

I didn't look at whatever it is, but are you saying Christians should do something about it?

 

[Booko]

Well I was hoping that someone of the Muslim faith could enlighten me. It's been in the news so often I assumed it was written about explicitly in the Qur'aan. If you are familiar with the book and you don't know of any specific verses, can you explain the reaction that we see around the world when someone draws Muhammad?

I'm not Muslim, but has anyone yet mentioned these suras regarding images generally? There's a wider prohibition regarding making images of anything with a soul, and Muhammad would be included in that at least.

21:51. We bestowed aforetime on Abraham his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him.

21:52. Behold! he said to his father and his people, "What are these images, to which ye are (so assiduously) devoted?"

21:53. They said, "We found our father worshipping them."

21:54. He said, "Indeed ye have been in manifest error-ye and your fathers."

Bukhari records several hadith along these lines also.

And of course also in the Qu'ran Muhammad made it clear He was not to be worshipped -- only God.

Of course the crazy thing that happens today in some quarters is that some people get so whipped up over depictions of Muhammad that they'll go to the extent of taking another's life, which ain't exactly something the Qu'ran approves of either, though the Qu'ran is quite explicit about that not being ok. *sigh*

However, this isn't unique in religious history. Think back: What was going on in the Christian world when it was about 1430 years old?

(I'll give everyone a hint: Google "host desecration", which is in no way mentioned in the NT.)

I'd only add there's another similiarity: The general religious populace can be whipped up into a furor over supposed religious slights by those with political reasons to do so. Reason #6.02 why religion and politics are such an explosive mix, eh?

 

[Booko]

What do you mean exactly by it 'would require a response'?

Consider the response I alluded to in the post about the U.S. Supreme Court. There's a group of Muslims (sorry can't remember which one) that have been respectfully requesting the removal of the portrait of Muhammad in the SCOTUS and offering a replacement of a passage from the Qu'ran. I've seen them interviewed, I think back when the whole Danish cartoon brouhaha was in the news.

Not that is a response, and a very appropriate one.

As I mentioned before, Baha'is have similar prohibitions about depictions of our prophets. A few years ago on another forum someone posted a photograph, not realizing it was something we wouldn't do. My response was to explain our views on things like this and ask if he would consider removing the link. I also made it clear the prohibition didn't apply to him, but it would be nice if he did. And he did. If he hadn't what would I have done? Nothing, including not bearing him any ill will.

Not all responses have to be crazy ones. lol

 

[Chesterton]

Not that is a response, and a very appropriate one.

It seems inappropriate to me.

 

[JJWhite]

Has anyone discussed the painting of Muhammad that hangs in the U.S. Supreme Court? It's respectful in the sense that it's part of a larger display of great influences on law across humanity, and I generally agree with Muslims here who say it would be preferable to have maybe a great calligraphic section from the Qu'ran instead of Muhammad, but is it really that offensive? It's not like Muslims made the picture and no one here is using it for idolatrous purposes.

I never even knew that existed till now, so I haven't heard it being discussed.

 

[Supreme]

Do note that I find it very sad that some Muslims seem to get more upset at a mockery of Muhammad (pbuh) than a mockery of God Himself... or at least they voice their objection more?

I've spoken to Muslims about this before. Apparantly, it's because Muhammad is dead and gone and can no longer defend himself- whereas God is all powerful and eternal, and CAN defend Himself from criticism.

 

[Arthra]

It's not a portrait..It's more like a sculpture on the north freeze of the Corinthian style Supreme Court building:

Sculpture figures prominently in the Corinthian architecture of the Court Building. One chamber features a frieze decorated with a bas-relief sculpture by Adolph A. Weinman of eighteen influential law-givers. The south wall depicts Menes, Hammurabi, Moses, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius and Octavian, while the north wall depicts Napoleon Bonaparte, John Marshall, William Blackstone, Hugo Grotius, Louis IX, King John, Charlemagne, Justinian and, Mohammad.

So it's a tribute to the history of great law givers.. The building has been around since the nineteen thirties.

 

[JJWhite]

I've spoken to Muslims about this before. Apparantly, it's because Muhammad is dead and gone and can no longer defend himself- whereas God is all powerful and eternal, and CAN defend Himself from criticism.

Well, with that logic, God can defend His Messenger, too, no? Doesn't make sense to me. I also remember CatherineAnne saying something along the lines of that some Muslims told her it was because Muhammad = Islam whereas God is revered in so many religions. So, I guess since they identify as 'Muslim', it only agitates them when something solely 'Islamic' is mocked.. I don't agree with that logic either.

Personally, I feel much more pain when I see some ex-Christians mocking God (Exalted be He) or Jesus (pbuh) than when I see a non-Muslim mocking Muhammad (pbuh). The latter I can attribute to ignorance.. but the former.. that just shows a complete lack of faith in anything holy. As much as I enjoy comedy and humor, I find it very difficult to watch anything where God, His Messengers, or His commandments are made fun of.

 

[Isambard]

What does that mean?

That the tall, blue-eyed, well built, "European" Jesus has less to do with trying to portray Jesus accurately through art and more to do with giving not-to-subtle commentary on racial superiority via a hyper-idealized Aryan form only found in comic books.

 

[Chesterton]

That the tall, blue-eyed, well built, "European" Jesus has less to do with trying to portray Jesus accurately through art and more to do with giving not-to-subtle commentary on racial superiority via a hyper-idealized Aryan form only found in comic books.

You assume people are trying to portray Jesus "accurately". That's wrong.

The Chinese portray him as Chinese. I guess that means the Chinese think they are the master race, too?

 

[Isambard]

You assume people are trying to portray Jesus "accurately". That's wrong.

The Chinese portray him as Chinese. I guess that means the Chinese think they are the master race, too?

Is the Chinese Jesus image ingrained into the religion itself and exported to other cultures?

 

[hikersong]

As much as I enjoy comedy and humor, I find it very difficult to watch anything where God, His Messengers, or His commandments are made fun of.

And yet in a world where God, and his Messengers, and his commandments, as understood by human beings, are used as tools to make other human beings suffer as well as to do good, I personally find it absolutely vital that we are free to make of fun of them. What is happening I believe JJ, more often than not, is that when you witness something you consider holy being mocked, in reality the subject of the mocking is a grotesque carricature of something that you wouldn't even recognise as "God" or "his messengers" or "his commandments". At least in the minds of those doing the mocking. You shouldn't take that personally or be offended on behalf of God. If God is good he is on the side of the mockers who are in effect playing a role in protecting the weak from over-bearing authoritarianism.

What I find unforgiveable is the hypocrisy that speaks out for the freedom to mock someone else's God, while going red in the face when the same thing is meted out to their own "holy" beliefs.

 

[Chesterton]

Is the Chinese Jesus image ingrained into the religion itself and exported to other cultures?

Do the Chinese export?! What, are you kidding me?

Seriously, I don't know what your point is.

 

[JJWhite]

And yet in a world where God, and his Messengers, and his commandments, as understood by human beings, are used as tools to make other human beings suffer as well as to do good, I personally find it absolutely vital that we are free to make of fun of them. What is happening I believe JJ, more often than not, is that when you witness something you consider holy being mocked, in reality the subject of the mocking is a grotesque carricature of something that you wouldn't even recognise as "God" or "his messengers" or "his commandments". At least in the minds of those doing the mocking. You shouldn't take that personally or be offended on behalf of God. If God is good he is on the side of the mockers who are in effect playing a role in protecting the weak from over-bearing authoritarianism.

What I find unforgiveable is the hypocrisy that speaks out for the freedom to mock someone else's God, while going red in the face when the same thing is meted out to their own "holy" beliefs.

Personally, I find a difference between making fun of people's actions done in the Name of God or whatever and making fun of God, or His Books, or Messengers.

It's not that I feel angry or offended or pass judgment on the intentions of those mocking... I just feel... I don't know.. I hurt inside.

I don't think that anyone should mock anything anyone holds holy.

 

[Isambard]

Do the Chinese export?! What, are you kidding me?

Answer the question.

 

[Chesterton]

Answer the question.

Well it's a double-loaded question. It assumes that some particular image is ingrained in the religion, and it assumes that China could export a religion which didn't originate in China. Considering that, the answer is no.