Is Telekinesis a Sin? What Does the Bible Say?

[dvd_holc]

telekinesis is a sin.


faith of a mustrad seed will move mountains by growing up into a plant and producing a lot of seeds that grow up other plants that produce lots of seeds that take over the garden building the mountain of God.

 

[prophecystudent]

I suspect that telekinesis, along with other so-called paranormal activities could become a sin if one descends into the realm of Satan, etc.

Having said that, I must point out that Christ converted water into wine, one at least two occasions he fed thousands with a small basket of food and had many baskets left over, He walked on the water, he transported Himself (teleportation), not to mention healings by the hundreds.

He said that if we had enough faith we could do all those things and more. He said nothing about it being a gift, he said we LACKED THE FAITH.

I see no reason to automatically categorize telekinesis or other such activities as a sin, especially without knowing the vehicle used to achieve the results.

Remember that several of God's prophets blocked the rain for years, called down fire from heaven, turned blood to water, etc.

Of course they were believers in the Living God, and were in His service when they did it. From that aspect, it could not be a sin.

Fred

 

[Alcamo]

ProphecyStudent,

I appreciate where you're coming from, but you offer no means of distinguishing between something that is of God and things that are not. The fruits of those who get into such things show they usually drift from God and snowball into deeper and deeper areas of the occult. They do not 'glorify God' or mature in their relationship with him through those experiences. As I said, the fact that God can do those things does not making it normative or mean Satan cannot imitate it, such as was done in Pharaoh's court.

What if I have 'faith' enough to effectively use a Ouija board or tarot cards? Is that a gift from God too? What if I learn to read palms, is that God-given discernment if I feel it brings him glory? After all, Jesus said we'd do even 'greater things', right? Is there any conceivable practice that could not be justified on that verse alone?

I'm really just trying to reason this through with everyone, so I apologize if my comments sound harsh. I certainly don't intend them that way. It's an unfortunate result of reading and writing rather than talking face to face.

I haven't heard anyone who thinks telekinesis can be a spiritual gift offer any means of discerning truth from error. Once again, I'm not saying God can't do those things. Jesus can of course transport himself anywhere, but when Philip (I think it was him) was teleported, it was not something he performed on his own, but God did it to him. Philip did not exercise some God given ability on his own. That's not a spiritual gift.

Thanks!

 

[Robinsegg]

I've wondered about the human brain and what its' capacity is. If we now only use 10% of our brains, how much did Adam & Eve use before the Fall? Could God have created us with "psionic" abilities, which we lost after the Fall?
The current fascination with such things notwithstanding, Satan has a tendency to take enough truth to be believable and twist it or add falsehood into it to take us from God. Therefore, could Satan not be doing the same with this? Could he not take a truth of original ability and lie to us in saying we can have it now?

If what I'm saying is so, and the latent ability is within our brains, could someone not end up with access to this ability? Could it not be scientifically measured if that occurred?

Ability, in and of itself, is not sin. We each have the ability to hate and to murder, but w/o action (hating, murdering) we are not committing those sins. Sin is in intent, attitude, and action.

Rachel

 

[prophecystudent]

ProphecyStudent,

I appreciate where you're coming from, but you offer no means of distinguishing between something that is of God and things that are not. The fruits of those who get into such things show they usually drift from God and snowball into deeper and deeper areas of the occult. They do not 'glorify God' or mature in their relationship with him through those experiences. As I said, the fact that God can do those things does not making it normative or mean Satan cannot imitate it, such as was done in Pharaoh's court.

What if I have 'faith' enough to effectively use a Ouija board or tarot cards? Is that a gift from God too? What if I learn to read palms, is that God-given discernment if I feel it brings him glory? After all, Jesus said we'd do even 'greater things', right? Is there any conceivable practice that could not be justified on that verse alone?

I'm really just trying to reason this through with everyone, so I apologize if my comments sound harsh. I certainly don't intend them that way. It's an unfortunate result of reading and writing rather than talking face to face.

I haven't heard anyone who thinks telekinesis can be a spiritual gift offer any means of discerning truth from error. Once again, I'm not saying God can't do those things. Jesus can of course transport himself anywhere, but when Philip (I think it was him) was teleported, it was not something he performed on his own, but God did it to him. Philip did not exercise some God given ability on his own. That's not a spiritual gift.

Thanks!

If the one doing (or trying to learn how to) the telekinesis is relying on God how can it be a sin?

For example, if the person is praying to God for faith enough to do those things, can it then be a sin to try, or in the extreme, to succeed?

If one descends into the occult in his/her efforts to be able to move objects by mind power, then it is, obviously a sin. It depends on how the individual approaches the effort.

Only the individual knows how he/she is approaching the subject. If I claim the power comes from God, and can do telekinesis, and give the glory to God and use it for God's work, then is it a sin? I don't think so.

Perhaps it is also a matter of what is in one's heart while doing that kind of thing, as I think about it, I am sure it is a matter of what is in one's heart.

Have I confused you even more?

Fred

 

[Alcamo]

I agree that if someone is asking God to teleport him rather than relying on some supposed human ability, it is not sin, but that's not what Cedric was saying. He is seeking some underlying human mental ability to do it.

Robinsegg, Although it has been commonly believed that we only use 10% of our brains, I've also heard this is really not true. Scientists continue to learn more about how the brain operates and see that all of our brain really is being used.

 

[*Starlight*]

I read some things about telekinesis when I wanted to write a paper for school about it (later I changed the topic to telepathy, though ) Personally, I think that if ESP phenomena, and the things related to it such as the Chi energy, is real, then it's something natural that hasn't been just explained yet.... I believe that there are many things in the Universe which contemporary scientists hasn't even dreamed of... that's actually why science exists, if everything has already been discovered, then it wouldn't be needed anymore. Anyway... so I guess telekinesis can be a sin if you use it to somehow cause harm.... but at the same time it can also be a virtue if you use it to help someone. It's just like any other human ability, actually.... well, that's just my opinion.

 

[Cedric]

Alcamo,
I know someone who attempts to practice telekinesis. His method involves meditation, focus, establishing a connection with the object (visualisation mostly) and force of will. In my opinion - apart from the actual result - that doesn't seem occultic in any way. I fail to see anything there that could be against God. Can you explain to me how you see otherwise?

telekinesis is a sin.

faith of a mustrad seed will move mountains by growing up into a plant and producing a lot of seeds that grow up other plants that produce lots of seeds that take over the garden building the mountain of God.

What? I don't follow your logic.

I'm really just trying to reason this through with everyone, so I apologize if my comments sound harsh. I certainly don't intend them that way. It's an unfortunate result of reading and writing rather than talking face to face.

There is no need to apologise, I understand. I am often in the same situation. I hope that you will look upon my comments the same way.

I agree that if someone is asking God to teleport him rather than relying on some supposed human ability, it is not sin, but that's not what Cedric was saying. He is seeking some underlying human mental ability to do it.

True.

Robinsegg, Although it has been commonly believed that we only use 10% of our brains, I've also heard this is really not true. Scientists continue to learn more about how the brain operates and see that all of our brain really is being used.

Also true, though I don't think that nulifies Robinsegg's point.

I read some things about telekinesis when I wanted to write a paper for school about it (later I changed the topic to telepathy, though ) Personally, I think that if ESP phenomena, and the things related to it such as the Chi energy, is real, then it's something natural that hasn't been just explained yet.... I believe that there are many things in the Universe which contemporary scientists hasn't even dreamed of... that's actually why science exists, if everything has already been discovered, then it wouldn't be needed anymore. Anyway... so I guess telekinesis can be a sin if you use it to somehow cause harm.... but at the same time it can also be a virtue if you use it to help someone. It's just like any other human ability, actually.... well, that's just my opinion.

I see it the same way.

 

[Fitz1901]

Ive always looked at it this. If your not trying to achieve telikenisis from God than you are trying to achieve it from the world. And everything not from God is sinful, therefore telikineses is sin

sounds a bit harsh but sometimes you have to be that way.

Don't get into it though, Ive heard of many christians who have got into that stuff and their faith drasticly changed for the worse.( famous example Edward Cayce)

Doesn't sound like it comes from God does it

Its only my opinon

and it isn't fun if you don't argue with it

But in my viewpoint don't do it

 

[Cedric]

Ive always looked at it this. If your not trying to achieve telikenisis from God than you are trying to achieve it from the world. And everything not from God is sinful, therefore telikineses is sin.

A farmer want's to grow a crop of corn. He looks after it every day. Sows the seed, waters correctly, protects it from pests and so on. A year later he gets his harvest.

A 100m swimmer trains hard in the the pool every weekday. Goes to the gym on a regular basis and eats a strict balanced diet. In time the Olymics come around and they take out the gold in their event.

A keen science student studies most nights of the week. They are interested in what is said in class and does what is required and then some. After exams are over they win the Physics Award for their school and their grades are high enough to go to the university of their choice.

These 3 people all worked to achieve something from the world. Have they sinned?

sounds a bit harsh but sometimes you have to be that way.

It doesn't sound harsh. It sounds wrong.

Don't get into it though, Ive heard of many christians who have got into that stuff and their faith drasticly changed for the worse.( famous example Edward Cayce)

You mean to say Edgar Cayce, and this is quite a different situation. Look him up in Wikipedia. (I can't provide a direct link because of my post count.)

Doesn't sound like it comes from God does it

Everything comes from God.

 

[izarya]

Everything comes from God.

Amen!

I personally am tired of all the credit given to Satan around here.
If I were a lost soul seeking answers from those "more knowledgeable than I," I would get the impression that Satan must be of at least EQUAL power to God from the way some people carry on.

 

[Cedric]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that last sentence. Could you go into more depth?

 

[dvd_holc]

What? I don't follow your logic.

Ok, first there is the rule of first mention in the bible. When something occurs in bible for the first time, the subsequent times afterward always go back to that occurrence. For example, the first mention of love in the bible is the story of God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son. Not to get in a debate of what happen, but…Gen 22:2
Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

Then in the case of Jesus the Son in the baptism and the transfiguration:

This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to Him.

And in John 3:16For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Now in the case of mountain, this occurs in Exodus. Moses goes up on the mountain to listen and obey God because God reigns on His mountain. This was in the burning bush, in the song that Israel sang after Pharaoh was killed, mount Sinai, etc…and at Sinai God told Moses Israel will be a kingdom of priest.

Ok, so mountain is a kingdom. And in first century, the people were still in a state of exile. Yes, people have returned to the land, but Rome and puppet authority figure of Rome where in charge. Lastly, there was no great return of God as the cloud by day and the fire by night or the great filling of the glory of the Lord in the House (Temple) of God. So then, the people where still waiting and working toward the restoration of Israel which would be the vindication of God and His people reigning supreme. So then, they looked for a prophet or anointed one of God to restore Israel back to Her place in the creation. The great dilemma would be how would this occur and what would it look like.

The way it occurred was through the vocation of Jesus the Anointed One of God who was the embodiment of God becoming the Shepard of Israel comforting His sheep and reconciling them to being the people of God the way God intended. Through the teachings of Jesus Christ, God was sowing the seeds of faith in the people of God. Some fell where birds came and ate it, some on rocks where it did not take root, some that grow up in thorns which killed the shoots, but some burst forth to produce more fruit and seeds that fell on more good soil.
It is the nature of the mustard seed to grow up and produce many tiny seeds that grow very quickly and take over the garden. The mustard seed had been a problem so difficult to deal with and for so long that the rabbis forbid the mustard seed near any other garden.

Read through Mark 3, you can see it there. Now, look at Mathew 18:20-23…Jesus was very clearly telling His followers that the kingdoms of the established rulers and the system they have will all fall under through our working out the kingdom of Heaven as a present reality by being mustard seeds. The great commission was for the people of God to make more people just like them. To produce others who want to have the passion and intense drive to be like Jesus.

So what happen? Jesus was killed not just because He challenged the established authorities calling them out to stop playing the games of power and control and become servants of justice and love caring for the poor, sick, and marginalized people of the world but because people were actually doing what Jesus said. Their whole lifestyle of the culture was being turned up side down. In Luke 19, Jesus meets the chief tax collector and immediately Zacchaeus changed his whole lifestyle to caring for the poor and making a statement that he has sinned and robed from the people which challenged the leaders of Israel not through words or thoughts but by physical actions. And through the develop of Luke 19, the leaders had enough of this countercultural revolution. They trailed and execute Jesus, but this did not end the message nor end the life of Jesus.

As you look at what happen to the surrounding areas where Christianity grew it was not that ideas or thoughts floated into their minds. It was from the mustard plants that produced seeds. The faithful in the Messiah became just like Jesus; some dieing at the hands of persecution of the established rulers, but through the love of the faithful going into area where the sick where, the lame, the mistreated, and all the other poor people…passionately sharing whatever they could with others so that their needs were taken care of the mountain of God spread and the mountain of Rome fell.

Did you know that the Asclepuis which was the god of healing would not take care of pregnant woman who in their last month of pregnancy might be having problems? Did you know that they would also leave in the event of plaque? Did you know that they would not take care of the too elderly? This was the established god of Rome who dealt with the sick, and when Asclepuis healed a person artwork would be made to honor the god. There is tons of artwork to Asclepuis; the people believed. But in walks the church who is more devoted to healing and caring for all the people, and change the culture away from the figments of their imagination into a real God who cared for all people regardless of age, sex, or rank. And Rome was not the same.

But the church lost the same commitment that the early believers. The church became like the systems and power of the other mountains. But God is still laying out seed. He is still looking for the mustard seed to take over. Will you become a mature plant producing fruit for God? Will you be planted in the mountain of God?

 

[Cedric]

Um. First let me say I am very flattered that you would write so much to to try and help me. Thank you. But... what did that have to do with this thread?

Can you explain breifly in one paragraph why telekinesis is a sin?

 

[dvd_holc]

telekinesis is a sin.


faith of a mustrad seed will move mountains by growing up into a plant and producing a lot of seeds that grow up other plants that produce lots of seeds that take over the garden building the mountain of God.

Um. First let me say I am very flattered that you would write so much to to try and help me. Thank you. But... what did that have to do with this thread?

Can you explain breifly in one paragraph why telekinesis is a sin?

well, you asked me to explain my logic from my previous post, so I explained how faith of a mustrad seed will move mountains which is the only verse that might be miss construde as saying to use power to move things.

Now, in a short explaination of why telekinesis is a sin. The power to bend the natural laws to our will is not purposed us to do. The power that you seek, though you do not understand it, is still routed out of demonic forces and witchcraft. God has given them the powers to tempt people to be like them. Don't seek it. Don't seek after personal empowerment schemes to make your greater than others, but seek after ways to improve quality of life for others.

 

[Cedric]

Can everyone find all the Bible verses they can relating to telekinesis in anway? That way we are basing our views off of scripture rather than opinion.

The power to bend the natural laws to our will is not purposed us to do. The power that you seek, though you do not understand it, is still routed out of demonic forces and witchcraft. God has given them the powers to tempt people to be like them.

Thank you. I now understand what you are saying. Do you have any verses to support the opinion that telekinesis is not a latent human ability?

Don't seek after personal empowerment schemes to make your greater than others, but seek after ways to improve quality of life for others.

They are not mutually exclusive. By making myself better (what do you mean by better?) than others, I can improve their quality of life. Do you have any verses relating to making yourself better than others?

 

[dvd_holc]

Can everyone find all the Bible verses they can relating to telekinesis in anway? That way we are basing our views off of scripture rather than opinion.

Thank you. I now understand what you are saying. Do you have any verses to support the opinion that telekinesis is not a latent human ability?

They are not mutually exclusive. By making myself better (what do you mean by better?) than others, I can improve their quality of life. Do you have any verses relating to making yourself better than others?

Well, here is a article take from Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology found at: http://bible.crosswalk.com/ (this site you can do word searches an so on).
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Dictionaries/BakersEvangelicalDictionary/bed.cgi?number=T452

“The Old Testament. Magic—the attempt to exploit supernatural powers by formulaic recitations to achieve goals that were otherwise unrealizable—was seen in a negative light in the Old Testament and was banned under penalty of death.” This article goes on to talk about a good sweep of magical references within the whole bible...

The description of telekinesis would certainly fall within the lines of the theological understanding of magic defined by that dictionary.

While accepting the understanding of the common beliefs of natural and supernatural, you might try to move the argument of whether telekinesis is natural or supernatural to being completely natural, in your case by alluding to or saying that the power is only a natural function of the being human (there by making the power something to be obtained from within yourself); however, if telekinesis is possible it would fail under the lines of being supernatural. I believe it stays within the realm of supernatural because altering the motion or the lack thereof requires a force to be applied or aculeate to produce resulting alteration. To say that through your mind you can move an object without having a direct physical line of transference (aka…your hand, foot, etc…) initiating a transference of force onto the object would make the process fall within the supernatural realm and within the theological understanding of magic, shown above.

Now in the NT, there is something worth noting. There in an encounter with Simon the Magician/Sorcerer in Acts 8 with the Apostles. Simon is to have mystical powers. The conical bible does not specifically refer to any specific powers that Simon is to have. That is how the bible usually deals with this because the focus is not on Simon’s so-called powers, but the motivation of the sinner which was Simon’s pursuit of power, own selfish pride, and advancement. Still, there is another source worth observing, the Acts of Peter.

The Acts of Peter is an apocryphal book; it has coded language that speaks of things that weigh more heavily in specific theological understanding and/or may speak of in the future events. In Acts of Peter, Simon tries to declare that he himself is a god. Simon was in a conflict with Peter, and Simon trying to prove his abilities was to have levitated himself or produced some form of flight. This of course may or may not have been true, but it can at least been considered that there might have been people who thought he actual had the power to do this. Climatically, Peter believing this the power was magic fueled by demonic powers, he prays to God to show who is truly God. Simon stops flying and falls to the ground breaking his legs. He was stoned at that very spot. Now, I do find this suspect on certain things…however, it does put forward the idea that movement of objects in this case, himself, by his own power is truly fueled by unseen demonic forces and is evil which is what you are looking for…specifically moving something without touching it and the believes surrounding it; referring back to the avoidance and the negative light the bible has toward this…

Reference:
http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineSt...=1&oq=&NavBook=ac&NavGo=8&NavCurrentChapter=8
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Magus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Peter
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13797b.htm

Now, this is what troubling…for awhile now the idea is that in the nature of being humans or by your own ability as a human you can perform these abnormal things if you knew only how to utilize your full potential. The Gnostic movement is about a person obtaining spiritual enlightenment by obtaining the secret knowledge. You can see this best in the Matrix movies because the Matrix series is a Gnostic message. You can see this in other religions, (Wicca, New Age, Buddhism, etc.). The lure is message of the snake, “oh it did not really mean that” and “you will be like God”. All of these are against the way God made us to be and taught to be in the bible.

When I said work toward improving the quality of life for others, I mean: there are poor people out there. They have a division between themselves and God. They are the marginalized, sick, those living in sin, and those thirsting after the presence of God in a more complete way. To those poor people, we work toward encouraging them and tending to there needs whatever they are through the power of the Spirit of God. The effect then becomes not to esteem oneself over others observed by those who walk the path that you purpose, but the motivation of servant hood in the way God created us to be; working toward the restoration of the creation.

 

[Michael Ch]

Okay....now i dont really know if telekinesis a sin....but take it like this.... for example...
God gave us the ability to move our arms..now if we used our arms to help people that would be of course good but if we like used them to hurt people that would be a sin... now what i am trying to say that our actions define us not our abilities...good and evil are just choices we make they are not powers....we have the powers and we can make choices to use them in god's way or satan's way.....and that what makes our destiny..

Thats what i think....