Is suicide a sin?

[Chaplain David]

A glaring example of how much evil actually affects people in this world.

And sometimes people don't get help:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-sick-ghouls-jeered-teenager-leapt-death.html

This boy waited three hours which makes me believe it was more a cry for help. Instead all he got was evil people putting their horrible thoughts into his head. As someone who has suffered depression the story broke my heart. Sometimes people cant get the help they need.

 

[Carolyn H]

And sometimes people don't get help:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-sick-ghouls-jeered-teenager-leapt-death.html

This boy waited three hours which makes me believe it was more a cry for help. Instead all he got was evil people putting their horrible thoughts into his head. As someone who has suffered depression the story broke my heart. Sometimes people cant get the help they need.

I agree Lois...Many...too many people fall through the cracks for a multitude of reasons...most of them economic. In this Newspaper article I think the onlookers have more to answer for than the poor young man who took his life.

My prayers are for him and his loved ones!!!!

 

[Nadiine]

And sometimes people don't get help:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-sick-ghouls-jeered-teenager-leapt-death.html

This boy waited three hours which makes me believe it was more a cry for help. Instead all he got was evil people putting their horrible thoughts into his head. As someone who has suffered depression the story broke my heart. Sometimes people cant get the help they need.

horrible.

The problem is, if we're going to live off sympathy and emotion, then alot isn't sin becuz people have good reason for the sins they commit.

The poor boy that was raised in terrible abuse becomes a victim when he himself is out killing others... Do we refuse to call serial killings sin becuz the killer had a horrific upbringing?

It looks more to me like we have sympathy and emotion making decisions than what an act itself is. Murder is murder unless it's self defense.

You don't know what God convicted them of in those moments or days leading up to suicide (or murder of others) - anytime they violate what they know is wrong to do, that is sin.
James 4:17

Nobody is cold and uncaring about their conditions, I just won't let sympathy cloud my vision as to the facts of the acts.

I think this verse might be fitting for the nightmarish attitudes of the kids in that story as a sign of the times of the end:

Matthew 24:12
"Because lawlessness is increased,
most people's love will grow cold.

 

[Criada]

I don't think that God will send anyone to hell for being desperate enough to end their own life.

Last week I was very close to being suicidal.. and at the time, I didn't think that it would be a sin.. though I realised it would hurt my family too much to be a viable option. But.. I wasn't deliberately defying God, I was simply unable to cope because of various circumstances, and because I was depressed.
I am now on medication, things look better, and I know that I don't want to end my life. But, had I done so, i do not think that God would have condemned me for it...

Obviously suicide is against the will of God, and so a sin in the strict sense.. but He is merciful.

 

[Carolyn H]

He sees us through the blood of Jesus!!!! AMEN

 

[katholikos]

I voted yes. Normally speaking, suicide is a mortal sin. And normally speaking, dying in a state of mortal sin can cause you to end up in hell.

However, there are two things to consider:

1) The state of mind of the individual: If they are suffering from some trauma, disorder, or grave emotional issue, they may not be responsible for what they have done, and God would know that.
2) Repentence: There is always a possibility that in the last seconds of life, the individual may sincerely regret what they just did, and truly ask God for forgiveness, and thus not be damned.

Bottom line? No one can know for sure if a suicide victim is damned or not, even though suicide in and of itself is a damnable act

 

[Nadiine]

He sees us through the blood of Jesus!!!! AMEN

I do think it's interesting how we like to work moral actions in a way that they best benefit us.... it seems to be our nature to try to justify things so we recieve the least amount of penalty or consequence

but... it all depends first on salvation. If one is not saved, they won't see His kingdom even if it isn't a sinful act.
And if they ARE born again and suffering w/ depression, I still don't believe the believer loses salvation since salvation is by faith not works.

We don't attain salvation thru works and we don't lose it by works.

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

^ I agree Nadiine.

I do think it's a sin, I don't think it's some kind of super sin that will make you un-re-born and condemned...

 

[Nadiine]

^ I agree Nadiine.

I do think it's a sin, I don't think it's some kind of super sin that will make you un-re-born and condemned...

I don't think it's a "super" sin either; meaning, there's only 1 that's unpardonable and murder/suicide isn't it.

I think we get on some REAL shakey ground when we start excusing sin by "disease" or "illness" becuz at that point, we lose all responsibility for harm of self and others and we start downthe slippery slope of refusal to accept responsiblity for our actions.

In my despair, I KNEW it was wrong - I just didn't care once I got to certain mental level. Mine was also spiritual - I don't doubt that ALOT of depression/oppression isn't medical at all but spiritual and that spiritual condition then causes the physical results doctors analyze & put people on meds for.

Once you have heavy stress, the stress has already caused the high cortisol levels - if you would have been tested prior to your stress, you wouldn't see elevated cortisol (chain reaction; our mental/emotional status CAN affect us physically & make physiological changes.

I will not say "all" people have spiritual oppression/depression & deny medical sources for it. But what if it IS spiritual if it's misdiagnosed? - Dr's sure can't diagnose spiritual oppression can they?? nope.
I had it, and when I took care of the spiritual problem, the physical went away.
(God knows what the source is - if it's diagnosed as medical when it's actually spiritual, then is it not sin then?? the devil made me do it?)

Stuff to think about

 

[Worcester Beacon]

If you follow the Bible to the law, then the commandnet of'you shall not kill' comes into force, as this killing even it is one's self. But, for a person to get to that stage they have reached the point of no hope or they feel that self destruction a better option as maybe in the case of a person suffering sevre cancer. Both my parents died from that and I can see why a person would do such a thing (they didn' commit suicide), in these cases I believe that God is a merciful God and would forgive. That is just one scenario, as we know there are many others, and we have remember no matter what we may think or believe, God looks at each individual on their merits and Judges them as He wills not as we would will.

 

[desmalia]

I voted that it is a sin.
But you know, lots of Christians die sinning. Think about someone getting into a car accident and swearing right before they die. That's a sin. And sin is sin is sin. It all misses the mark. When Christ died on the cross it was for all of our sins for all time, not just the ones we've committed or repented of for the time being. It's for all of them. So once we are saved, no sin can rob us of that.

The question then must be asked, can a Christian, a true Christian, commit suicide? Or would the Holy Spirit always lead us away from that, and the ones who do go through with it turn out to really not be believers? That's a harder question. I can't say for sure, honestly. But I suspect that Christians probably can and do commit suicide sometimes.

 

[Nadiine]

I voted that it is a sin.
But you know, lots of Christians die sinning. Think about someone getting into a car accident and swearing right before they die. That's a sin. And sin is sin is sin. It all misses the mark. When Christ died on the cross it was for all of our sins for all time, not just the ones we've committed or repented of for the time being. It's for all of them. So once we are saved, no sin can rob us of that.

The question then must be asked, can a Christian, a true Christian, commit suicide? Or would the Holy Spirit always lead us away from that, and the ones who do go through with it turn out to really not be believers? That's a harder question. I can't say for sure, honestly. But I suspect that Christians probably can and do commit suicide sometimes.

I agree w/ your thoughts on it, if we die & commit any sin whatsoever at that time, it's over - I have to ask then, what is FAITH if we lose salvation becuz of a [bad] work?

None of us will ever truly know if a genuine Christian could go thru w/ it.
As for me, I don't know if i was at the time - altho all my life I lived with heavy conviction of sin and KNEW YHWY was the 1 true God & knew the way to salvation growing up in the church. I wanted that life, I just couldn't get there & did repent & accept, but I kept falling away over time.

At the church I grew up in, yrs. after they got a new Pastor, one of the staff had found this Pastor hanging in the bathroom in his office.
So that was a Pastor - of course I can't say what his status was, but still. I dunno.

It makes me angry at Satan & all he's doing in this world -

 

[CADude12]

Suicide is a sin because murder is a sin. Suicide is self-murder.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

See, the thing that makes me doubt its sabotaging salvation (and that's an argument have encountered) is the one that's been brought up a few times: for someone to do that, for someone to take their own life, they have to be desperate beyond all reason. Be it from chemical imbalance, or indescribably depression - either way, suicide isn't a rational thing to do.

In cases of depression, for example, I think it's terribly easy to say the person should just have had faith that the Lord would get them through... but to me that smacks of that same argument that claims if you're not blessed with a miracle that heals you physically, you just didn't have enough faith

We don't know why certain people are healed and why some aren't. So if someone is suffering from depression so painfully they will actually take their own life, I just can't see God punishing them for it.

 

[Nadiine]

See, the thing that makes me doubt its sabotaging salvation (and that's an argument have encountered) is the one that's been brought up a few times: for someone to do that, for someone to take their own life, they have to be desperate beyond all reason. Be it from chemical imbalance, or indescribably depression - either way, suicide isn't a rational thing to do.

In cases of depression, for example, I think it's terribly easy to say the person should just have had faith that the Lord would get them through... but to me that smacks of that same argument that claims if you're not blessed with a miracle that heals you physically, you just didn't have enough faith

We don't know why certain people are healed and why some aren't. So if someone is suffering from depression so painfully they will actually take their own life, I just can't see God punishing them for it.

it depends on salvation.
Nobody enters heaven without it.

And we could say that those who take their life who do not have salvation, that could be the source of WHY they were driven to that extreme...

I don't believe God judges on emotion, but truth becuz all sin has to be judged. Grading on a curve due to emotion isn't what I see in the Bible anywhere; in fact, if God judged leniently, Jesus Christ wouldn't have gone thru what He did (for nothing He did).

 

[GreenMunchkin]

it depends on salvation.
Nobody enters heaven without it.

And we could say that those who take their life who do not have salvation, that could be the source of WHY they were driven to that extreme...

But this is the same as the "you just didn't have enough faith" argument. It blames the individual, I believe, wrongfully. I think when people are deeply depressed, or emotionally unwell, oftentimes it's satan attacking. He wouldn't try to crush anyone so wholly unless they are a threat to him, and only a Christian is a threat to him.

I just think it's far too easy to say "Probably they weren't saved in the first place..." Much easier than admitting that even Christians can be pushed that far, I think, somehow. For me, too. But if someone is already hurting that bad, I think our arbitrarily deciding they aren't/weren't saved is like kicking them when they're already struggling.

I don't believe God judges on emotion, but truth becuz all sin has to be judged. Grading on a curve due to emotion isn't what I see in the Bible anywhere; in fact, if God judged leniently, Jesus Christ wouldn't have gone thru what He did (for nothing He did).

God judges our heart; sees our heart. We're called to give more than asked for, and to feed the poor and to clothe the naked - all of these are manifestations of our heart, of our emotions and our love. I actually believe God very much judges our emotions... didn't realise I believed that til just now, though

 

[katholikos]

it depends on salvation.

And another element is whether or not you can lose your salvation, a great can of worms that gets opened every now and then.

I, for one, believe that salvation is an ongoing processs rather than a one time event, and that therefore you can lose your salvation. Ergo, the statement that "those who take their life do not have salvation" is a non-sequitor... ..no offense

 

[Nadiine]

But this is the same as the "you just didn't have enough faith" argument. It blames the individual, I believe, wrongfully. I think when people are deeply depressed, or emotionally unwell, oftentimes it's satan attacking. He wouldn't try to crush anyone so wholly unless they are a threat to him, and only a Christian is a threat to him.

No, I disagree that it goes to the argument of "you don't have enough faith"... for that matter, you don't have enough faith not to overeat, lie, cheat, steal, hate, covet, & whatever other sin there is available to choose from.

We all sin & fall short. & biblically, it does speak of infants and mature in the faith. Jesus Himself said "oh ye of LITTLE faith"....

I just think it's far too easy to say "Probably they weren't saved in the first place..." Much easier than admitting that even Christians can be pushed that far, I think, somehow

If a Christian has dabbled in the occult or does something very damaging spiritually, they just may fall irreparably.
God has given us all we need for victory, but that doesn't mean we USE and follow everything perfectly as we should or could.

It's simply an issue of failed humanity and susceptibility to fall imo.

I simply offered that as a fact, that people who take their lives can be and often ARE lost.
Look at divorce; marriages also fail for the lost & saved both.

 

[porterross]

The Bible describes it as a sin. I think what's hard for us to reconcile is that, unlike other sins, there is no opportunity to repent and without repentance, there can be no forgiveness. It's tough and very harsh from an either/or approach, but in all honesty, none of us truly know how Christ deals with each and every person who is so victimized by despair.

How would the person forced to kill themselves (or someone else) by an attacker or captor be judged? I would hate to think that devil could win an otherwise claimed child of God in such a manner on a technicality, but then I am also in agreement with those who regard human sympathy as more valuable than ideology. (Thank you Kenneth Clark!)

 

[desmalia]

The Bible describes it as a sin. I think what's hard for us to reconcile is that, unlike other sins, there is no opportunity to repent and without repentance, there can be no forgiveness. It's tough and very harsh from an either/or approach, but in all honesty, none of us truly know how Christ deals with each and every person who is so victimized by despair.

How would the person forced to kill themselves (or someone else) by an attacker or captor be judged? I would hate to think that devil could win an otherwise claimed child of God in such a manner on a technicality, but then I am also in agreement with those who regard human sympathy as more valuable than ideology. (Thank you Kenneth Clark!)

Oh goodness, Kenneth Clark, I haven't thought about him since high school! Ah yes, good old Kenneth.

My question is though, do you believe that only the specific sins that we (Christians) knowingly and actively repent of are forgiven? So then any that we have not are not forgiven?