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Is suicide a sin???

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Originally posted by Angelo
Perhaps if they are truly suffering or in a state of mental illness, God would forgive it. Since there is no sin that can't be forgiven.

 

Not that I disagree with your premise, but we must consider:

a: If you take Christ at His Word, there is a sin which will not be forgiven. (Mt 12:31)

b: Sin is a mental illness, regardless of how it destroys a person.

c: Again, if you take Christ at His Word, mankind (that means all of us, you and me) is evil and deserves to be destroyed (Mt  7:11-23).  Mercy has been given.  We should not demand of God that He give more.  That does not mean He will not give more.  But we should not dare to demand it of Him.  Our place is thanksgiving, not complaint!

 

Be salt and light.

Peace
 
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All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Sin is after all what you do that I don't. If you do not believe line one this is what you probably believe.

With all due respect forgiveness of sin is available to everyone though the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

This is after all the "Good News" we are to share with others.

 
 
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Lost

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POSTED BY PASTOR N.B.: 

"<IMG alt="Old Post" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/posticon.gif" border=0> <B>Excellent Post</B>



Pastor N.B. here: (added emphasis)
I wonder how many here realize that the only thing the Ruler of the Jews, (the one named Nicodemus of John 3:1-10) needed was an understanding of this subject of what it [takes] to BE BORN AGAIN?

How closely related to salvation, is suicide? (try Matt. 10:34-*39)
God, REQUIRES TOTAL COMPLETE [*SPIRITUAL] SUICIDE! I give UP LORD, [WHAT WILL YOU] HAVE ME TO DO??? From Saul to Paul, in Acts 9:6---From a lost murdering professed God loving open sinner, to a Born Again coverted Christian believer! Wow!! None, bar/none, will be in the kingdom of God any other way! Acts 4:12. Regardless of professing to be 'c'hristian.

Yet, this is where the [WORK] at that time, NOW, first begins! (Conversion-New Heart) This is ONLY the [starting] point! try Phil. 4:13 &amp; 2 Cor. 12:9-study Heb. 5 through Heb. 6.
(again, thanks for a very loving &amp; 'spiritual' post)
P/N/B/"

Pastor N.B.:&nbsp; I want to thank you for the study material.&nbsp; When I open my bible I feel like I've entered a labyrinth.

Also, this may sound silly but, who were you thanking?&nbsp; It wasn't me, was it?

_______________________

My new friends here on CF are like chocolate syrup on my Breyers Vanilla Ice Cream.

Lost

__________

Adds:&nbsp; Some one PLEASE teach me the&nbsp;quote box thingy! ROFL

&nbsp;
 
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Originally posted by Lost Sheep
POSTED BY PASTOR N.B.:&nbsp;

"<IMG alt="Old Post" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/posticon.gif" border=0> <B>Excellent Post</B>



Pastor N.B. here: (added emphasis)
I wonder how many here realize that the only thing the Ruler of the Jews, (the one named Nicodemus of John 3:1-10) needed was an understanding of this subject of what it [takes] to BE BORN AGAIN?

How closely related to salvation, is suicide? (try Matt. 10:34-*39)
God, REQUIRES TOTAL COMPLETE [*SPIRITUAL] SUICIDE! I give UP LORD, [WHAT WILL YOU] HAVE ME TO DO??? From Saul to Paul, in Acts 9:6---From a lost murdering professed God loving open sinner, to a Born Again coverted Christian believer! Wow!! None, bar/none, will be in the kingdom of God any other way! Acts 4:12. Regardless of professing to be 'c'hristian.

Yet, this is where the [WORK] at that time, NOW, first begins! (Conversion-New Heart) This is ONLY the [starting] point! try Phil. 4:13 &amp; 2 Cor. 12:9-study Heb. 5 through Heb. 6.
(again, thanks for a very loving &amp; 'spiritual' post)
P/N/B/"

Pastor N.B.:&nbsp; I want to thank you for the study material.&nbsp; When I open my bible I feel like I've entered a labyrinth.

Also, this may sound silly but, who were you thanking?&nbsp; It wasn't me, was it?

************
P/N/B/ here: Not silly at all! I was saying the 'greatest' compliment to you that I know of! Bottom line: TRUELY MY MASTER WAS VERY VISABLE IN THIS MISSIVE! (we all need to know this)

Two verses to start with to 'leave' labyrinth? :) Might be 2 Tim. 3:16 & Isa. 28:8-10?

One last thought :idea: ?
The Lord did not call the wise & educated of Israel in mans wisdom per/say! They knew to much they thought. Try Rev. 3:16-17. But He called fisherman +, James & John were called by the Master as the 'sons of thunder' with Peter being something else [before conversion]. All of the disciples forsake Him at the cross! Something was missing still, it was that of the 'Born Again' experience.

So? In 'labyrith' (whatever or where ever that is?) there might be a true disciple!

End of P/N/B/ remarks.
*************

_______________________

My new friends here on CF are like chocolate syrup on my Breyers Vanilla Ice Cream.

Lost

__________

Adds:&nbsp; Some one PLEASE teach me the&nbsp;quote box thingy! ROFL

&nbsp;
 
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Lost

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To Pastor N.B....When I first saw your note to me I&nbsp;felt&nbsp;VERY honored.&nbsp; Yet, I&nbsp;was unsure if it was really for me&nbsp;as I do not understand what I said that&nbsp;incurred such kind words.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;

Thank you so much for your encouragement and help!&nbsp; God Bless You Pastor N.B.! :priest: &nbsp;&nbsp; :pray:

CF has been more of a church home to me than any church I've ever been in.&nbsp; (Only exception to this is when I was baptised.)

&nbsp;

Lost

_____________________________________

My new CF friends are the chocolate syrup on my Bryers Vanilla ice cream.
 
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wblastyn

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A person isn't going to purposly take their life and murder themselves and the temple of God if they honestly think God loves them and they love God and want to please them.

Suicide is a rejection of God's grace. Christ said, ""To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life," (Rev 2:7), not to him who quits and murders himself. The author of the Hebrews also says "it is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in teh Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again." (Heb 6:4-6) If I rest my salvation in that "I have been crucified with Christ and no longer live, but Christ lives in me," (Gal 2:20), then who am I killing when I commit suicide? Not myself, for I have died to myself, and put on the new man in Christ. Rather, it is the Holy Spirit whom I cast out.
People who say things like this have obviously never been in that situation and have no idea what they are talking about.

I can't believe that a loving God would condemn someone who was suffering from a mental illness.
Suicide is not a selfish act. It's a final, desperate attempt to make the pain of living go away.
How could God punish anyone who is suffering through that kind of torment?
God wouldn't. He would welcome them into his loving arms.
Yes, I agree :)

You can tell a suicidal person God loves them, which is true, but it won't make the pain go away, it might for a while but then it all comes rushing back. Believe me, I've been there. It's all very easy to say "oh God loves you and if you kill yourself you are rejecting God" but wait until you are the suicidal one.

It's my belief that if you kill yourself you are giving Satan victory because there's one less witness around to ruin his plans. But I do not believe God will send you to hell, God knows the heart of the suicidal person and understands the pain they are going through.
 
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Lost

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quote by Wblastyn:

"You can tell a suicidal person God loves them, which is true, but it won't make the pain go away, it might for a while but then it all comes rushing back. Believe me, I've been there. It's all very easy to say "oh God loves you and if you kill yourself you are rejecting God" but wait until you are the suicidal one.

It's my belief that if you kill yourself you are giving Satan victory because there's one less witness around to ruin his plans. But I do not believe God will send you to hell, God knows the heart of the suicidal person and understands the pain they are going through."

&nbsp;

Well said Wblastyn!
 
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Wblastyn,

One ought to be careful when they make generalized statments. Do you know me or my past? Were you standing beside me when I looked over the ledge of my window and thought about jumping, when I wanted to slit my wrists, or when I tried to drink myself unconcious? No?

Christ was.

Do you believe in the power of God or not? Has Christ saved us from this world or not? People need to quit listening to their itching ears and begin to listen seriously to everything the Word of God implies. Sin is no joke. God's punishment for it is made more than evident at calvary in the bleeding image of his son, scourged and hated with everything my sin deserves.

If Christ can save from the devil, what makes so many so sure that he can't save from depression, from stress and anxiety, and from pride WHICH IS the cause of suicide, and I know becuase I WAS THERE too.

Next time you accuse someone of knowing nothing, please think twice. I cannot express to you the hurt you have caused me today.

Does God not know the hearts of pagans? Does he not know the hearts of evil men and the pain they endure? Do you really think Osama bin Laden is a happy man? Sin is real and it IS PAIN, no matter what form it takes. If God were to save every man woman and child who felt pain, he would save the entire human race. And you know what? He has certainly made that salvation available in abundance.

It is those who reject the Son of Man that will be rejected by Him. Christ cannot make it more clear to us in His Words.

Trust Him, or trust yourself. The decision is yours.

Peace to all who seek it
 
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Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
If that is true, that it is the sin against the Holy Ghost? Then you had best quit eating &amp; breathing just about everything! P/N/B/

???

If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the Truth is not in us, but if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

I can do nothing for my sin, which is made evident daily.&nbsp; In eating and drinking, in breathing and walking and talking, I am sinful.&nbsp; No matter what precepts of the Law I walk fully, I fail.&nbsp; What I would not do, that I do.&nbsp; What I would&nbsp;do, the Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Yes, I ought to stop living to stop sinning, but He who has called me to this task is the author and perfector of my faith, and He will finish what He has begun.&nbsp;

Sin is a mental disease which WILL kill me, yet, I have already died in Christ and therefore I will live and the second death can touch me not.

I pray that all of you may have such assurance of your own salvation in the atoning and vicarious sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ who reigns now and evermore.&nbsp; Amen.

&nbsp;
 
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wblastyn

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Wblastyn,

One ought to be careful when they make generalized statments. Do you know me or my past? Were you standing beside me when I looked over the ledge of my window and thought about jumping, when I wanted to slit my wrists, or when I tried to drink myself unconcious? No?

Christ was.

Do you believe in the power of God or not? Has Christ saved us from this world or not? People need to quit listening to their itching ears and begin to listen seriously to everything the Word of God implies. Sin is no joke. God's punishment for it is made more than evident at calvary in the bleeding image of his son, scourged and hated with everything my sin deserves.

If Christ can save from the devil, what makes so many so sure that he can't save from depression, from stress and anxiety, and from pride WHICH IS the cause of suicide, and I know becuase I WAS THERE too.

Next time you accuse someone of knowing nothing, please think twice. I cannot express to you the hurt you have caused me today.

Does God not know the hearts of pagans? Does he not know the hearts of evil men and the pain they endure? Do you really think Osama bin Laden is a happy man? Sin is real and it IS PAIN, no matter what form it takes. If God were to save every man woman and child who felt pain, he would save the entire human race. And you know what? He has certainly made that salvation available in abundance.

It is those who reject the Son of Man that will be rejected by Him. Christ cannot make it more clear to us in His Words.

Trust Him, or trust yourself. The decision is yours.

Peace to all who seek it
Sorry for causing you hurt.

All I meant was telling people they don't truely love God or are rejecting Christ by committing suicide isn't going to make them feel any better about themselves. You can tell people all you like Jesus loves them and will take care of their pain, which is all true, but it won't make the pain go away, it might for a while but soon it will all come back.

You need to get professional help if you're suicidal. God gave people psychology to help people with mental illnesses. You can't just expect to pray and everything will turn out ok, you have to put some work in yourself. God can take away the suicidal thoughts, I'm sure of that, but it won't make the problems surrounding them go away.&nbsp; God would have to rewrite time to make the&nbsp;roots of your troubles go away, so He gave us psychologists to help us deal with the problems instead.
 
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I forgive you.&nbsp; :) &nbsp;Praise be to God.

However, I disagree completely with your point. It neglects the gospel and focuses on works righteousness. It is based on doubt in God's power, and rooted in faith in man's mind. This is not to say that counseling is wrong or that a Christian cannot use it. I do not hold that position at all. But "With God, all things are possible." Forget not, "He shall be called...Wonderful Counselor."

Christ has said, "Ask for anything in my name and it will be granted to you."

And James says, "You do not have because you do not ask. When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures."

That goes for spending one's life, as well as one's riches.

I do not disagree with you in saying that simply walking into a psychotherapists office and telling all the depressed people "Jesus loves" them will not likely make them feel better. That is more than foolishness, for that is not the True and complete gospel (That is only half the good news.&nbsp; It ignores the Law and its conviction which is what brings ones need for grace into an understanding which can accept it.) EVEN SO, that hardly makes suicide acceptable in God's eyes. As I have said, it doesn't matter how sin kills you, if you die in it and rejecting Christ, your dead in it and without Christ.

We are so quick to forget that all salvation is by God's grace alone and through His work alone. He is just and He will "have mercy upon whom He will have mercy." Nothing we say or do can change that fact.

Did not Christ say to the blind and lame, "See!" and "Walk!" Can He not then heal the many hurts caused by our prideful depression and self-pity? If He came not to save us from our sinfulness, then what did He come for?

Christ is no magic charm. But His grace heals. Sometimes it does take time. Sometimes it does take therapy. But it doesn't ALWAYS take time and therapy. And surely, the Spirit of God would not cast itself out of a redeemed soul by murdering itself. Only our sin can do that, and we are warned against it more than once in Scripture. It IS possible to "shipwreck" the faith.

The True Gospel is not always what people want to hear. But that changes nothing. We can do nothing to save ourselves. That is for Christ alone to do. But we can surely condemn ourselves by our thoughts, words and deeds, by what we do, and by what we leave undone.

Praise be to Christ the Lord for His mercy upon me, a poor sinner who deserves to be cast into ghenna. May He pour out His mercy abundantly on all who are in need of it. And may He in doing so open our hearts to the glorious and freeing Truth, that we may understand the urgency of the gospel, and not hesitate even a moment in sharing it with the nations, including our own.

Peace
 
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suzie

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This is such a complex issue, one that I admit havent completely come to terms with. On one side, even though God forgives all sin and each of us do sin, when you commit suicide, you do not have the option of repenting of this. In other words, you cant ask forgiveness, because you are not alive to do so. Suicide is killing self, and thus would fall under murder.

The other side of the issue is, that if you believe once saved always saved, then we are guarenteed the kingdom regardless of sin. If we believe all sin is equal in God's sight, how many of us still commit sin ? We are not any longer bound by sin....but then, if someone was saved, and to the point of suicide, could they have ever been saved?

The only way I can work this out, and this is not pulling up verses, but by logic, is that that person's state of mind is not reflective of what is held in their heart. I know my sister suffers from a chemical imbalance and is one of the most devout Christians I know, however, before she was diagnosed and placed on the proper meds, she said she at times would be driving along and something would tell her to drive off the road or into a concrete divider, etc. She never acted on these notions, but they were very real to her. Someone said you cannot just say Jesus loves you and it will go away. That is true, for many depressions have a physical aspect to them. It would be like diabetes and not treating it because Jesus can heal it. Jesus CAN heal anything, but sometimes the miracle of healing or treatment is through guidance of our scientists and researchers. Anyway, that is my opinion on this.
It is a good topic to make you think!
 
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VOW

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I don't like the idea of putting forth mental illness as sin.

That would be saying like a broken leg is sin.

Most, if not all, mental illnesses have a physical cause. There is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Society has trained us in thinking that mental illness is a sign of weakness of character, and it's time for that way of thinking to be trashed.

I'm with Annabel Lee: suicide is a desperate act of a desperate person. There is no thought of, "I'm disobeying God," or "I'm siding with the Devil." It's "I can't stand this pain any more, and I have to make it stop." If the person had any rational thinking, he or she would consider what this action would do to the people around them who care.

Suicide is a symptom, and you should no more sit in judgment of someone's illness than you would of another person having a fever or a rash.

There is ANOTHER type of suicide, however, which is much more malicious. I'm talking about the fanatics who use their own death as a method of warfare. The suicide bombers who transport explosives into heavily populated areas, or the hijackers of jetliners who plow fuel-filled planes carrying hundreds of innocents into occupied structures holding hundreds MORE of innocents are guilty of murder: not only murdering the people who are on the planes or in the occupied areas, but also of murdering themselves. This is murder just as much as taking a loaded gun into a store and firing at the shoppers.

There is no mental illness involved in that action.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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seebs

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One of my wife's relatives committed suicide. He was schizophrenic, but so far as anyone knows, he committed suicide during one of his "lucid" moments; the times when he understood that he was insane, and that what he experienced the rest of the time was not real.

The rest of the time, he could look out the window of his room in the asylum, and he could see the infinite fields of Hell, with all the [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ed, and Satan laughing and telling him it was his fault.

On the whole, given that this happened long before antipsychotic medication was understood or possible... I guess I'm inclined to assume God was merciful to the poor guy.
 
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Originally posted by Kristy
Ok&nbsp; The only place I have found where the bible speaks against suicide is thou shalt not murder. suicide being murder upon oneself.

So is suicide gonna send you to hell????

I only ask because I couldnt find the answer to it myself.

Originally, the early Christians thought that it was an unforgiveable sin, since the sinner wouldn't have a chance to repent, before death, of course.

But in modern times, we know that a sane person wouldn't commit suicide, so we imagine that God, being a loving God, would understand.
 
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Originally posted by Othniel
I forgive you.&nbsp; :) &nbsp;Praise be to God.

(zapped for content)

" EVEN SO, that hardly makes suicide acceptable in God's eyes. As I have said, it doesn't matter how sin kills you, if you die in it and rejecting Christ, your dead in it and without Christ. "

******
Pastor N.B. here: (some added emphasis perhaps)

First off, there is no thought of suicide in my makeup, except of daily 'spiritual' suicide that is.

But when God gives us a choice to shorten life or prolong it, it is our choice if we take the shortening choice! That is mental & spiritual known suicide.

And on that subject: Gen. 9:5 comes into view as Truth. The Lord God's Word says in inspiration,
"And [surely YOUR BLOOD of YOUR LIVES WILL I REQUIRE: at the HAND OF EVERY BEAST WILL I REQUIRE IT,] .." And if one does not understand this? Go over to check Gen. 12 to see what 'flesh as food' did to knowingly shorten life! From nearly 1000 yrs. to a couple hundred! (Gen. 25:7-8. Abramham died at 175 yrs.)

So is 'suicide' the UNPARDONABLE sin? If it is, we are all goners! But 'if' one Loves his Master? Then they are 'slaves' by free choice for Him!

Lets use one more thought:
Over in 1 John 5:17, one of my favorite penman states the Master's inspired Words very plainly :clap: He says, "[All unrightousness is sin, and there IS A SIN NOT UNTO DEATH.]"
Does one believe it?------P/N/B/
 
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