Is spiritual rest superior to physical rest?

[Gary K]

so your buying a stairway to heaven ... interestingly Jesus had no steps in his ...

I have to chuckle sometimes as you don't know me in the least and yet think I'm lying to you when I told you I give my tithe and offerings to show my gratitude to God. He has done so much for me money is a very poor way to repay Him. He has literally saved my life multiple times. People have pulled guns on me and threated to kill me and He hasn't allowed it. I've been in really bad car wrecks and I didn't die. My own brother tried to kill me and God didn't let him succeed. I owe Him everything I am and have.

 

[honey badger]

I have to chuckle sometimes as you don't know me in the least and yet think I'm lying to you when I told you I give my tithe and offerings to show my gratitude to God. He has done so much for me money is a very poor way to repay Him. He has literally saved my life multiple times. People have pulled guns on me and threated to kill me and He hasn't allowed it. I've been in really bad car wrecks and I didn't die. My own brother tried to kill me and God didn't let him succeed. I owe Him everything I am and have.

was not judging you at all ... i have found all religion to be a path of a serpent ... it was this path i was in judgement of ...

 

[Gary K]

was not judging you at all ... i have found all religion to be a path of a serpent ... it was this path i was in judgement of ...

You're mistaken in that. Paul told us to come together to worship and all the more as we see the day approaching. Going off on your own is not a good idea.

 

[honey badger]

You're mistaken in that. Paul told us to come together to worship and all the more as we see the day approaching. Going off on your own is not a good idea.

and yet Paul still had a thorn in his side ... i have never attended any temple or adhered to any doctrines of men and yet i can see more in a single verse than the whole of christendom has weened from the entire book ... and none of this of my own doing ...

 

[Gary K]

and yet Paul still had a thorn in his side ... i have never attended any temple or adhered to any doctrines of men and yet i can see more in a single verse than the whole of christendom has weened from the entire book ... and none of this of my own doing ...

Ok.

 

[DamianWarS]

Knowing what I know from personal experience about the damage abuse does to a person if someone from another denomination told me their story of how God changed their life I would absoluitely understand that the power of God had been at work in their life. However, you have to admit our denomination has very distinctive beliefs that other denominations do not have. No other church has them.

and it is the power of God that is able to break through denominational barriers and still actively minister. We all have limits (personally and denominationally speaking) recognizing those limits allows us to understand the drive of a partiular system and how what our role in that system is under Christ. Paul tells us in 1 Cor 9.... "To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law ... To those not having the law I became like one not having the law ... To the weak I became weak, to win the weak". Here's a hint.... we are all weak. If you understand your weaknesses or weaknesses of the system you are in then you can speak through that system under the influence of Christ. So to you... to the SDA church you can become like an SDA memeber to minister to people within the SDA church. I'm sure you know more than most some of the behind-the-curtain weaknesses and you can use your experiences to speak into these systems to those who may be victimized or marginalized within this system or on the other end those who may be exploiting the system for their own gains. You identity is first under Christ and then under SDA so under that hierarchy under Christ, you have authority over the SDA church as Christ has authority over the SDA church, not to change their "rules", which requires earthly authority, but to reform hearts from within and show people the truth of Christ. Make sure you get the order right.... Christ defines the SDA church, not the SDA church Christ.

To call returning to the SDA church aa preconceived bias on my part is just flat out wrong. It was rthat I found out God loved me, personally through Ellen White's writings that brought me back to it.

your history is your bias and your personal experience with Ellen White's writing reinforces that bias. All of this lends itself to an anecdotal conclusion for landing in the SDA. "I read X person's writings and it transformed my life". can we agree that the only person who does the transforming is Christ? Let's be careful who we give credit to. I have had transformational experiences from the bible too. Do you know what book I read? I read the bible. One person has one perspective and if we surround ourselves with that one person all we end up doing is comparing everything with what they say and it is not actually biblical driven but "Ellen White" driven. This is an anti-critical approach and has a lot of potential to be harmful, the bible itself is not founded on one author but on many authors, from many backgrounds and many different goals all under the influence of God. Thousands of other authors also have influence from God so why surround yourself with one "guru" when you have access to libraries full knowledge? Surround yourself with more varied ideas, not to compare it with Ellen White, but to pull out the inspiration of God in it and use it to positively impact your walk with Christ. If all you can do is compare it to Ellen White then she is a crutch to you and a bias you are unable to let go of.

Unless someone has gone through what I have it's impossible for them to really understand what it does to a person. Love is the only thing that could have drawn me back to the SDA church because love is the most powerful force in the universe. Far more powerful than any bias,and I had a definite anti SDA bias.

such is the story of every single person out there. all of our histories have led us to the steps we walk today. but you were drawn back to Christ through the SDA church. It is always Christ first. your bias keeps you coming back to the same conclusions regarding the SDA church and your inability to see its weaknesses confirms it. I can tell you very quickly the weakness of the denomination I participate. To say the SDA church is unflawed is a giant bias, you haven't said that but that's the messaging that I'm hearing. You certainly don't admit to any weaknessness either.

 

[Gary K]

and it is the power of God that is able to break through denominational barriers and still actively minister. We all have limits (personally and denominationally speaking) recognizing those limits allows us to understand the drive of a partiular system and how what our role in that system is under Christ. Paul tells us in 1 Cor 9.... "To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law ... To those not having the law I became like one not having the law ... To the weak I became weak, to win the weak". Here's a hint.... we are all weak. If you understand your weaknesses or weaknesses of the system you are in then you can speak through that system under the influence of Christ. So to you... to the SDA church you can become like an SDA memeber to minister to people within the SDA church. I'm sure you know more than most some of the behind-the-curtain weaknesses and you can use your experiences to speak into these systems to those who may be victimized or marginalized within this system or on the other end those who may be exploiting the system for their own gains. You identity is first under Christ and then under SDA so under that hierarchy under Christ, you have authority over the SDA church as Christ has authority over the SDA church, not to change their "rules", which requires earthly authority, but to reform hearts from within and show people the truth of Christ. Make sure you get the order right.... Christ defines the SDA church, not the SDA church Christ.



your history is your bias and your personal experience with Ellen White's writing reinforces that bias. All of this lends itself to an anecdotal conclusion for landing in the SDA. "I read X person's writings and it transformed my life". can we agree that the only person who does the transforming is Christ? Let's be careful who we give credit to. I have had transformational experiences from the bible too. Do you know what book I read? I read the bible. One person has one perspective and if we surround ourselves with that one person all we end up doing is comparing everything with what they say and it is not actually biblical driven but "Ellen White" driven. This is an anti-critical approach and has a lot of potential to be harmful, the bible itself is not founded on one author but on many authors, from many backgrounds and many different goals all under the influence of God. Thousands of other authors also have influence from God so why surround yourself with one "guru" when you have access to libraries full knowledge? Surround yourself with more varied ideas, not to compare it with Ellen White, but to pull out the inspiration of God in it and use it to positively impact your walk with Christ. If all you can do is compare it to Ellen White then she is a crutch to you and a bias you are unable to let go of.


such is the story of every single person out there. all of our histories have led us to the steps we walk today. but you were drawn back to Christ through the SDA church. It is always Christ first. your bias keeps you coming back to the same conclusions regarding the SDA church and your inability to see its weaknesses confirms it. I can tell you very quickly the weakness of the denomination I participate. To say the SDA church is unflawed is a giant bias, you haven't said that but that's the messaging that I'm hearing. You certainly don't admit to any weaknessness either.

I don't admit to any weaknesses? What do you think I admit to when I speak of my history? It's a litany of weakness and rebellion against God.

Also, how many times do I quore Ellen White or SDA pastors here? I don't. I've done my own studying and am very independent minded. It got me a lot of whippings as a kid as I wouldn't roll over and go along with whatever was said if I didn't think it was right. It got me more abuse as a young adult as my old man would get enraged at me standing up for myself. He's thrown punches at me while he was driving. I just caught them but he was hitting my little brother in the head with his elbow. He would get so mad his irises would change color. He normally had pale blue eyes and they would turn white when he got mad.

You think you have it all figured out, but you're a long way from understanding the truth.

 

[DamianWarS]

I don't admit to any weaknesses? What do you think I admit to when I speak of my history? It's a litany of weakness and rebellion against God.

Also, how many times do I quore Ellen White or SDA pastors here? I don't. I've done my own studying and am very independent minded. It got me a lot of whippings as a kid as I wouldn't roll over and go along with whatever was said if I didn't think it was right. It got me more abuse as a young adult as my old man would get enraged at me standing up for myself. He's thrown punches at me while he was driving. I just caught them but he was hitting my little brother in the head with his elbow. He would get so mad his irises would change color. He normally had pale blue eyes and they would turn white when he got mad.

You think you have it all figured out, but you're a long way from understanding the truth.

You've admitted to your own physical weaknesses, but not weakness in your logic or your theological approach.

post-crisis you found your way back to X church having already been raised in their teaching through a book written by their founding leader. I'm not saying it's not meaningful to you but there is nothing remarkable about that account. It doesn't appear to be your habit to cite authors but you must admit that for an SDA it's a cliche that when you do it's in reference to Ellen White's materials and you must also recognize that outside SDA circles this won't be received well and be perceived as a bias. If you want your message to be received better you're going to have to take a more critical approach to it and quote sources outside an SDA vacuum.

 

[pasifika]

Hi, this a great topic, thanks..I just want to ask a question regarding the "spiritual rest". The question is, what is the "spiritual work"?
E.g., in Genesis God work in 6days before resting on the 7th. So we know what God work is.

So, for us (ie Christians) to have a "spiritual rest" is because we complete a "spiritual work". Thank you

 

[Gary K]

You've admitted to your own physical weaknesses, but not weakness in your logic or your theological approach.

post-crisis you found your way back to X church having already been raised in their teaching through a book written by their founding leader. I'm not saying it's not meaningful to you but there is nothing remarkable about that account. It doesn't appear to be your habit to cite authors but you must admit that for an SDA it's a cliche that when you do it's in reference to Ellen White's materials and you must also recognize that outside SDA circles this won't be received well and be perceived as a bias. If you want your message to be received better you're going to have to take a more critical approach to it and quote sources outside an SDA vacuum.

So did Ellen White write the Bible? The Bible is all I've ever quoted here. I don't see a need to quote her or any Adventist ministers. I know my way around the Bible after having studied it for decades.

My physical weaknesses? I have repeatedly spoken of my spiritual weaknesses which are no different than anyone else's, including yours. I can tell you I know a guy from another forum who after several years of discussions is now reading her books and beginning to accept SDA doctrines. As a senior programming developer he's an outstanding logical thinker. But that is neither here nor there because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Intellect doesn't have much to do with it.

I knew an old man 30 some years ago who wasn't anywhere close to a brainiac, but he was one of the finest Christians I've ever known. He worked maintenance in a factory and wasn't bright enough to figure out a lot of things he needed to do. He knew it and would send up a prayer when he was called upon to fix something he didn't understand. God always answered his prayers. He was a mighty man of faith.

So just keep on thinking your brilliance is what you need to rely on and you'll find out one day how wrong you are Paul was one of the most brilliant men of all time. Much smarter than you or I, and yet the devil led him around by the nose until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. He did the same with me for decades.

Paul's the one who tells us spiritual things are spiritually discerned. He learned his lesson after a long sad experience in which he was the killer of many Christians. I hope it doesn't take that kind of experience to teach you the same lesson. Stop thinking intellectual gifts from God can get you to heaven. That can be a fatal mistake.

 

[DamianWarS]

So did Ellen White write the Bible? The Bible is all I've ever quoted here. I don't see a need to quote her or any Adventist ministers. I know my way around the Bible after having studied it for decades.

My physical weaknesses? I have repeatedly spoken of my spiritual weaknesses which are no different than anyone else's, including yours. I can tell you I know a guy from another forum who after several years of discussions is now reading her books and beginning to accept SDA doctrines. As a senior programming developer he's an outstanding logical thinker. But that is neither here nor there because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Intellect doesn't have much to do with it.

I knew an old man 30 some years ago who wasn't anywhere close to a brainiac, but he was one of the finest Christians I've ever known. He worked maintenance in a factory and wasn't bright enough to figure out a lot of things he needed to do. He knew it and would send up a prayer when he was called upon to fix something he didn't understand. God always answered his prayers. He was a mighty man of faith.

So just keep on thinking your brilliance is what you need to rely on and you'll find out one day how wrong you are Paul was one of the most brilliant men of all time. Much smarter than you or I, and yet the devil led him around by the nose until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. He did the same with me for decades.

Paul's the one who tells us spiritual things are spiritually discerned. He learned his lesson after a long sad experience in which he was the killer of many Christians. I hope it doesn't take that kind of experience to teach you the same lesson. Stop thinking intellectual gifts from God can get you to heaven. That can be a fatal mistake.

God is not a God of chaos he is a God of order. If creation teaches us anything God orders the choas, he spearates it and he speaks light into it.

The world is full of competing doctrines and millions who follow them claiming the exact same things you are that the learnt and unlearnt alike come to their system's conclusions. This is just Christian tribalism, we all want to be on the winning side so applaud only the accounts that cheer our own position. Talk to any Christian from any background and they can tell you similar accounts. This is a testament not to our denominations but that God speaks through and uses our limited systems even when they are in competition with each other. I'm not at war with you nor am I challenging you to leave the SDA church, you are my brother and I am simply challenging the way you approach scripture so that you may serve God better where God has called you.

I was raised in a denomination that I am still very strongly a part of. There's stuff I dont like, but there is a lot stuff I do like and I don't feel God is calling me away from this community. I also meet with other Christians of different backgrounds and we share, pray and encourage each other. My denomination is like the passport I hold of where I come from, but I don't fly my denominational flag I fly the flag of Christ. Currently I am not in an area with a church so I don't attend any formal setting but I'm still accountable to a Christian community who know me and my family well. I don't consider myself x denomination by identity (or interdenomination/nondenominal, etc...), I'm a follow of Christ first, and my denomination is held loosely, not because I have no commitment, i'm active in the fellowship and have no intentions of changing. I hold it loosely because Christ tells me if I want to follow him I must deny myself first, so my desire for tribalism or comparison to others needs to be denied.

You may feel called in SDA ciricles, as I'm feel called where I am, but we can test these doctrines to see how biblical sound they are. A doctrine that relies on dividing laws to descriminate against law is not a biblical revealed methodology and there's no other way to put that. You may argue I am relying on logical devices too much (I'm a computer programmer too) not faith but what are you calling me to have faith in? Faith in an unsupport biblical doctrine? So if it's not from the bible than what or who am I basing my faith in? And there's the problem.

I keep sola scriptural, so all droctrines are validated by scripture alone. I cannot find anywhere in Scripture where it instructs me to divide law, then only follow the hand picked ones. Call that logical or not, but to me it is about being honest in how I approach scripture. I'm fine with unanswered aspects but not when doctrines hinge on things the bible never speaks of.

I would encourage you to stay in the SDA church if that is where God is calling you. I feel the call to peace is greater than these imbalances withun these systems (as they are too great and wide spread) and we can be an active member serving within. But I am challenging you how you approach scripture, your justifications for these things are just too absent in scripture that I can't agree with you on those points and why would you expect any less of me? as these are serious matters that deserves attention and focus so that we understand how we should apply them.

 

[Gary K]

God is not a God of chaos he is a God of order. If creation teaches us anything God orders the choas, he spearates it and he speaks light into it.

The world is full of competing doctrines and millions who follow them claiming the exact same things you are that the learnt and unlearnt alike come to their system's conclusions. This is just Christian tribalism, we all want to be on the winning side so applaud only the accounts that cheer our own position. Talk to any Christian from any background and they can tell you similar accounts. This is a testament not to our denominations but that God speaks through and uses our limited systems even when they are in competition with each other. I'm not at war with you nor am I challenging you to leave the SDA church, you are my brother and I am simply challenging the way you approach scripture so that you may serve God better where God has called you.

I was raised in a denomination that I am still very strongly a part of. There's stuff I dont like, but there is a lot stuff I do like and I don't feel God is calling me away from this community. I also meet with other Christians of different backgrounds and we share, pray and encourage each other. My denomination is like the passport I hold of where I come from, but I don't fly my denominational flag I fly the flag of Christ. Currently I am not in an area with a church so I don't attend any formal setting but I'm still accountable to a Christian community who know me and my family well. I don't consider myself x denomination by identity (or interdenomination/nondenominal, etc...), I'm a follow of Christ first, and my denomination is held loosely, not because I have no commitment, i'm active in the fellowship and have no intentions of changing. I hold it loosely because Christ tells me if I want to follow him I must deny myself first, so my desire for tribalism or comparison to others needs to be denied.

You may feel called in SDA ciricles, as I'm feel called where I am, but we can test these doctrines to see how biblical sound they are. A doctrine that relies on dividing laws to descriminate against law is not a biblical revealed methodology and there's no other way to put that. You may argue I am relying on logical devices too much (I'm a computer programmer too) not faith but what are you calling me to have faith in? Faith in an unsupport biblical doctrine? So if it's not from the bible than what or who am I basing my faith in? And there's the problem.

I keep sola scriptural, so all droctrines are validated by scripture alone. I cannot find anywhere in Scripture where it instructs me to divide law, then only follow the hand picked ones. Call that logical or not, but to me it is about being honest in how I approach scripture. I'm fine with unanswered aspects but not when doctrines hinge on things the bible never speaks of.

I would encourage you to stay in the SDA church if that is where God is calling you. I feel the call to peace is greater than these imbalances withun these systems (as they are too great and wide spread) and we can be an active member serving within. But I am challenging you how you approach scripture, your justifications for these things are just too absent in scripture that I can't agree with you on those points and why would you expect any less of me? as these are serious matters that deserves attention and focus so that we understand how we should apply them.

Well, I appreciate your attitude, but I obviously disagree with you on the rest of it.

Post your preconceptions one at a time on the new Ellen White thread I just started.

 

[Icyspark]

The first man was made of dust from the earth, the second man from heaven.

Hi honey badger,

Hebrews 2:17 says, "Therefore, it was necessary for him to be made in every respect like us, his brothers and sisters, so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people." Certainly I agree that Jesus is 100% God, but the mystery of the incarnation is that He is also 100% man and in that He is also made of "dust from the earth."

God bless.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark