Is SOLO Scriptura Scriptural?

[Rick Otto]

Scripture doesn't define itself.

Nor does it authorise itself

Truth does define itself and it is self-authorizing.

 

[Rick Otto]

The scriptures, you dont consider the scriptures His words?

Generaly, what we see is a humanistic impulse seeking sovereignity.
People want their assurances sensible to their flesh.
Truth alone isn't enough to verify truth. It must have a very special & greatly learned personage with a very special & very ancient pedigree making the presention before it's trustworthy, otherwise, how will we know great mysteries like "water is wet"?
My point is that some people appear to have a difficult time trusting exactly who it was who "gave" us the Scripture, and they start idolizing means.

 

[Rick Otto]

Unfortunately, the “historical” definition for Sola Scriptura given above is fallible since it was determined by “scholarly” or by “knowledgeable” sources. And since Sola Scriptura is fallible it should not be used in understanding Scripture.

Unfortunately, men are fallible too, so by that standard you shouldn't be using any of them to understand scripture.

 

[Montalban]

Truth does define itself and it is self-authorizing.

If this is so, then you've not refuted my point, because it would mean you still need something outside of 'it' to help

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes, what constitutes Scripture? The Gospel of Barnabas? The Gospel of Judas? Apocryphon of James?


con·sti·tute

   /ˈkɒn

stɪˌtut, -ˌtyut/ Show Spelled[kon-sti-toot, -tyoot] Show IPA
–verb (used with object), -tut·ed, -tut·ing. 1. to compose; form: mortar constituted of lime and sand.

2. to appoint to an office or function; make or create: He was constituted treasurer.

3. to establish (laws, an institution, etc.).

4. to give legal form to (an assembly, court, etc.).

5. to create or be tantamount to: Imports constitute a challenge to local goods.

6. Archaic . to set or place.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me:for he wrote of me.

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Of which ( the law/ Moses) and the prophets (Elijah) according to the vision they were given stood with Christ, speaking of His decease

John 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.= 1Peter 1:11 testifying beforehand of the sufferings of Christ.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

In the past, and now

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Whereas when they looked up and and saw no man (neither Moses or Elijah) save Jesus= of Whom Moses said, "hear ye Him" and God the Father bear Him witness the same saying, "hear ye Him"

The doctrine of Christ

2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


1Titus 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

As it pertains to apostles, one of the churches are commended for trying them who claim they are and finding them liars in revelation, so apostles can be tried as the bereans sought to prove the things spoken to them by searching the scriptures to see whether those things be so. As the church is built upon both prophets and apostles and the apostles would reason out of the scriptures proving from them He was the Christ as Christ had exponded unto them from the scriptures all things concerning himself, starting from Moses and all the prophets as in Luke 24:27

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

And here...

Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

Because the church is built on both.

Ephes 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

2Titus 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Rom 16:20 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

His words correct us and show us how His words were laid out, in the past through the prophets, what they testified beforehand of, what Jesus speaks concerning them and expounding those things unto his disciples (concerning himself) as it pertains to them.

Theres many more, some I had posted earlier.

Thank you very much laconicstudent for the defintion of "constitutes". However, that one (in particular) I did know.

Though, I know I have openly posted that I am someone with a limited vocabulary and I bless you in the name of God the Father for your great kindness in posting the definition in order to help me.

And so I thank God for you in your most sincere love for me in doing just that.

God bless you and reward your kindness

 

[Rick Otto]

If this is so, then you've not refuted my point, because it would mean you still need something outside of 'it' to help

You have no point. Just denials.
The only thing truth "needs" (so to speak) is a witness.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Generaly, what we see is a humanistic impulse seeking sovereignity.
People want their assurances sensible to their flesh.
Truth alone isn't enough to verify truth. It must have a very special & greatly learned personage with a very special & very ancient pedigree making the presention before it's trustworthy, otherwise, how will we know great mysteries like "water is wet"?
My point is that some people appear to have a difficult time trusting exactly who it was who "gave" us the Scripture, and they start idolizing means.

I like that one Rick, Truth alone verifying the truth, the scriptures given by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit verifies Jesus Christ, "The scriptures testify of ME". Its also said, its to the glory of God to conceal a thing and the glory of kings to search it out.

Its always fun doing that

 

[Thekla]

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

I guess at least it can be said that those who have, over the millenia, seen to it that the Holy Scriptures were 'kept' (which include the logos/sayings of the Logos ) can be said to have loved Christ ...

2Titus 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

And those who kept the scriptures which were added to the ones that Titus knew as a child (which was likely the Greek OT, or LXX), could be said to have loved Christ.

The Bereans had open ears; they received in all readiness what Paul had to say, and then after they searched. They were both literate and had access to the Holy Scriptures. And some who heard in all readiness did not have the means to search the Holy Scriptures (the ability to read, and the access). I would suggest that they also loved Christ, only they didn't need to study a text in order to remain firm in Him.
And there were some who searched the Holy Scriptures, and their belief was in something twisted, or not at all.

 

[Montalban]

You have no point. Just denials.

You refuted yourself by pointing out that one needs outside references.

The 'truth' of the statement, for example "The sky is blue" is not as you pointed out (regarding 'the truth') referenced only to itself

 

[Montalban]

I like that one Rick, Truth alone verifying the truth, the scriptures given by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit verifies Jesus Christ, "The scriptures testify of ME". Its also said, its to the glory of God to conceal a thing and the glory of kings to search it out.

Its always fun doing that

If you read what he says he said that the truth DOES NOT verify itself.

 

[Montalban]

God bless you and reward your kindness

Perhaps you misunderstood the question?

 

[Montalban]

The scriptures, you dont consider the scriptures His words?

Are you related to MamaZ?

 

[Fireinfolding]

I guess at least it can be said that those who have, over the millenia, seen to it that the Holy Scriptures were 'kept' (which include the logos/sayings of the Logos ) can be said to have loved Christ ...

Yes though in their midst there were (as the apsotles said) false prophets among them who spake to His words then as I regard much the same happens today.

For example, those coming in his name prophesying contrary to what was already noted as Jeremiah points out

Just as the prophet Jeremiah knew Hananiah lied in the name of the Lord

Jerm 28:6 Even the prophet Jeremiah said, Amen: the LORD do so: the LORD perform thy words which thou hast prophesied, to bring again the vessels of the LORD'S house, and all that is carried away captive, from Babylon into this place. Nevertheless hear thou now this word that I speak in thine ears, and in the ears of all the people; The prophets that have been before me and before thee of old prophesied both against many countries, and against great kingdoms, of war, and of evil, and of pestilence.



Jerm 2:15 Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, Hear now, Hananiah; The LORD hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie.


Whereas the words of the Holy Spirit are not a lie but are words of truth even as He is the truth.

And yet here the Lord says here...

Ezek 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

And back to Hananiah

Jerm 28:16 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will cast thee from off the face of the earth: this year thou shalt die, because thou hast taught rebellion against the LORD. So Hananiah the prophet died the same year in the seventh month.

Whereas it says (which is very much the case with Hananiah) speaking a vision of his own heart in the name of the Lord which was not in accord with what the prophets spoke as pointed out by Jeremiah.

Jerm 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

The wheat (speaks according to his words) and the chaff (does not)

Jer 23:28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.

He proves us by them (as well) even as Paul said to us (prove all things)

Duet 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God ***proveth you***, to **know** whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Confirming Jesus words heres (in regards to the one loveth him not, and adds, the word ye hear is not mine but the Fathers) which again, is in accord with the same word noted above in scripture.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Whereas Paul confirms the same...

Romans 3:4... let God **be true**, but every man **a liar**; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in **thy sayings**, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Because we are to let two or three speak and the other judge and they are justified in thy sayings in letting God be true and every man a liar.

Again as Jesus confirms the same...

Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Whereas God said,

Prov 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

And here they were found such...


Rev 2:2... and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

To "try" them is "to prove" them (even as God proveth you) "by them" as well.

1Thes 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


So the first, speaks of being found a liar through adding to his words, in Rev they tried in accord with what is they found them liars according to his own words and Paul even says "prove all things" and thus the bereans much the same, and by searching the scriptures.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

They follow the same patern, theres much much more that cannot be fit into a reply box showing this after the law and testimony and when he speaking as a man (as Paul notes he did) or when he spake as a fool, or when he refers to "doth not the law say the same also" His carefulness is commendable, even when he says, "doth not nature teach" or I have no commandment of the Lord but I give my judgment. Its those things when you look closely at them and the way he speaks bless my socks off and how these things are found elsewhere throughout scripture which gives us examples when we look for them. I certainly dont know them all but enough to have an awe of it all.

And those who kept the scriptures which were added to the ones that Titus knew as a child (which was likely the Greek OT, or LXX), could be said to have loved Christ.

Yes, they kept his words, reasoning from them and proving the Lord Jesus Christ and the fellowship of the mystery of God, and the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ. When you search out what they mention (for example) the woman and the man being a mystery of Christ and the Church the mystery is some awesomely huge I feel like the queen of Sheba, "the HALF of it wasnt even told me"

But completely in awe of Him and His wisdom and how blessed we are when we abide in Him and His words in us and How he expounds them to us, opening up all things to us that way. Theres nothing compareable to "that"

The Bereans had open ears; they received in all readiness what Paul had to say, and then after they searched. They were both literate and had access to the Holy Scriptures. And some who heard in all readiness did not have the means to search the Holy Scriptures (the ability to read, and the access). I would suggest that they also loved Christ, only they didn't need to study a text in order to remain firm in Him.
And there were some who searched the Holy Scriptures, and their belief was in something twisted, or not at all.

Sure, they say even as there were false prophets long ago the same is true they said then no doubt, Jerm is an example of that very thing.

God sending a lying spirit in Kings is also written of beforehand even as a strong delusion is sent that they should believe a lie is also mirrored much the same. Believing a lie and believing the truth are both spoken of, God even sending the delusion himself, He knows them that are His kiddo, He sure does

 

[Fireinfolding]

Are you related to MamaZ?

If shes In Christ yes, or do you mean after the flesh?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Perhaps you misunderstood the question?

In blessing him?

 

[Fireinfolding]

If you read what he says he said that the truth DOES NOT verify itself.

Well then I missed that if thats the case, I believe the scriptures (the words of truth) testify of Christ (who is The truth).

 

[MamaZ]

Are you related to MamaZ?

We are in fact sisters in the Lord..

 

[Fireinfolding]

We are in fact sisters in the Lord..

Could there be "such a thing"?

 

[laconicstudent]

I see, so we don't need faith which is a gift from God, We just our own carnal reasonings?
Reasonings come from the heart and what does God say about the heart?

The heart of man above all else is desperately wicked and who can know it?

Yes and before you jump to the verse that says come let us reason together, We are to reason together with God.

So, in summary, you hold to the Biblical canon that you do, simply because you were raised with it.

 

[laconicstudent]

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me:for he wrote of me.

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Of which ( the law/ Moses) and the prophets (Elijah) according to the vision they were given stood with Christ, speaking of His decease

John 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.= 1Peter 1:11 testifying beforehand of the sufferings of Christ.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

In the past, and now

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Whereas when they looked up and and saw no man (neither Moses or Elijah) save Jesus= of Whom Moses said, "hear ye Him" and God the Father bear Him witness the same saying, "hear ye Him"

The doctrine of Christ

2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


1Titus 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

As it pertains to apostles, one of the churches are commended for trying them who claim they are and finding them liars in revelation, so apostles can be tried as the bereans sought to prove the things spoken to them by searching the scriptures to see whether those things be so. As the church is built upon both prophets and apostles and the apostles would reason out of the scriptures proving from them He was the Christ as Christ had exponded unto them from the scriptures all things concerning himself, starting from Moses and all the prophets as in Luke 24:27

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

And here...

Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

Because the church is built on both.

Ephes 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

2Titus 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Rom 16:20 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

His words correct us and show us how His words were laid out, in the past through the prophets, what they testified beforehand of, what Jesus speaks concerning them and expounding those things unto his disciples (concerning himself) as it pertains to them.

Theres many more, some I had posted earlier.

Thank you very much laconicstudent for the defintion of "constitutes". However, that one (in particular) I did know.

Though, I know I have openly posted that I am someone with a limited vocabulary and I bless you in the name of God the Father for your great kindness in posting the definition in order to help me.

And so I thank God for you in your most sincere love for me in doing just that.

God bless you and reward your kindness

Of, course, apologies if it seemed snide. To clarify and restate, I wish to know how you know that the Gospel of Mark is the inspired word of God while the Gospel of Peter is not.