Is SOLO Scriptura Scriptural?

[Montalban]

When do you think Paul wrote this? Or perhaps Joe Suchabanana wrote this?

I've already gone over this on this thread with Rick Otto, and with you regarding when Paul wrote it how he would have handed it over.

You think the document authorises itself, so if it's got a 'seal' on it, where's the date?

I note you're still not addressing points I've raised in a thread above where you still miss the point regarding

a) other Epistles
and
b) why these are in the Bible

 

[Standing Up]

I've already gone over this on this thread

Yeah, me too. Over and over and over. But not again. Bye bye for now.

 

[Montalban]

Yeah, me too. Over and over and over. But not again. Bye bye for now.

You've not addressed what 'signs' (seals, marks, etc.) were on the other Epistles nor why this would make people combine it with other books into the Bible

 

[MamaZ]

[When Paul wrote a letter its authority doesn't rest in the letter by itself. It rests first through the Holy Spirit to Paul.
/QUOTE] Exactly and the very same HS who is authorative lives in each and one of Gods true believers to distinguish what is truth and what is not truth. For this very same authority will quicken to us what it is He authorized Paul to write.

 

[MamaZ]

I already mentioned the Councils, but you're more than welcome to keep asking what I've answered.

And where did the councils get the words to the Formulae?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I've already gone over this on this thread with Rick Otto, and with you regarding when Paul wrote it how he would have handed it over.

You think the document authorises itself, so if it's got a 'seal' on it, where's the date?

I note you're still not addressing points I've raised in a thread above where you still miss the point regarding

a) other Epistles
and
b) why these are in the Bible

I hope to hear answers to these.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

No one's denying that there were other letters, although the quantity may be in question. The point (right now) is simply that Paul left a token on his letters. It's how we differentiate between true and false.

But some say that that is not really Paul, but rather that we don't really know. It could be Joe Suchabanana who wrote them, but the Church and/or the Council decided that Joe is really Paul

For the sake of argument let us agree to accept that the number of 250 plus is inaccurate. I got that from a Catholic media source and have not been able to find an electronic copy I can post. I also do not wish to spend too much time on this.

So, if you are agreeable to it, can we use the 150 so from Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers that I provided. The dates are varied but they were in use by churches that taught and had to be decided upon by somebody.

Also, there is a book I asked about and chose for it's date. It also claims to be from Thomas. As we know, not all the epistles are from Paul and Paul was only called after Jesus went to Heaven and was not part of those that studied with Jesus for years.

This may be a good one: A Translation of the Gospel of Thomas

 

[JacktheCatholic]

And where did the councils get the words to the Formulae?

I think the formula of the Trinity is from both written and oral tradition.

Scripture and oral treadition give us "The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost" while oral tradition (confirmed through ECF) give us the Trinity.

That is why the NT does not say Trinity.

I guess before the NT was fully compiled and agreed upon for the Divine Liturgy that all scripture was tied to oral tradition...

 

[Montalban]

Exactly and the very same HS who is authorative lives in each and one of Gods true believers to distinguish what is truth and what is not truth. For this very same authority will quicken to us what it is He authorized Paul to write.

So you're arguing against StandingUp who said that the letters of Paul are known by their seal/sign/signature

I note sigh again your reliance on circular logic too. I've gone over this so many times. Any conclusion you come to regarding scripture is unassailable because you simply believe it is as scripture is meant to be read because of your faith that the holy spirit lead you to a correct interpretation in the first place. Never mind the 100,000's of other Protestants all believing in different things about the Bible, excepting that the Holy Spirit guided them too!

 

[Montalban]

And where did the councils get the words to the Formulae?

Just a small point. It's formula in the context of your sentence. When I speak of formulae I'm using the plural

The words to formulae come from the Holy Spirit. Jesus had said that his church would prevail

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Just a small point. It's formula in the context of your sentence. When I speak of formulae I'm using the plural

The words to formulae come from the Holy Spirit. Jesus had said that his church would prevail

Gates/Assembly of Death vs Gates/Assembly of Life.....I choose Life

Matthew 16:18 I am saying yet to thee that thou art Peter, and upon this the rock I shall be building of Me the Assembly, and gates of hades not shall be prevailing of Her

Matt 7:13 Enter ye thru the cramped Gate, that broad the Gate and spacious the Way the one leading-away into the Destruction and many are the ones entering thru Her.
14 That cramped the Gate and having been constricted the Way, the one leading-away into the Life and few are the ones finding Her.

Revelation 22:14 Happy the ones rinsing the robes of them, that it shall be the authority of them on the Wood of the Life and to the Gates they may be entering into the City.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Gates/Assembly of Death vs Gates/Assembly of Life.....I choose Life

Matthew 16:18 I am saying yet to thee that thou art Peter, and upon this the rock I shall be building of Me the Assembly, and gates of hades not shall be prevailing of Her

Matt 7:13 Enter ye thru the cramped Gate, that broad the Gate and spacious the Way the one leading-away into the Destruction and many are the ones entering thru Her.
14 That cramped the Gate and having been constricted the Way, the one leading-away into the Life and few are the ones finding Her.

Revelation 22:14 Happy the ones rinsing the robes of them, that it shall be the authority of them on the Wood of the Life and to the Gates they may be entering into the City.

Her, City, Church of the firstborn, the general assembly (Sion) wherein He laid that precious corner stone Jesus Christ

Ever notice that He said "I am the door" (singular) used also as gate once (as well) it speaks of gates in the plural but he says ye shall call thy "gates" (plurally) "praise"

Isaiah 60:18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

Given it speaks of Sion as the church of the firstborn whereas it says to the contrary, the dead dont "praise Him".

Then ofcourse there is the gates (plurall) of hell and thy gates (plural) called praise

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Her, City, Church of the firstborn, the general assembly (Sion) wherein He laid that precious corner stone Jesus Christ

Ever notice that He said "I am the door" (singular) used also as gate once (as well) it speaks of gates in the plural but he says ye shall call thy "gates" (plurally) "praise"

Isaiah 60:18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

Given it speaks of Sion as the church of the firstborn whereas it says to the contrary, the dead dont "praise Him".

Then ofcourse there is the gates (plurall) of hell and thy gates (plural) called praise

A gate is also mentioned in the Covenanatle parable of Luke 16

http://www.christianforums.com/t7458936-14/#post54510139
"for I am having 5 brothers...." Luke 16:28

Luke 16:20 Yet a certain poor-one was to name lazaros who had been cast toward the gate/pulwna <4440> of him having sores-abiding

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

*snip*

In contrast to the rich man, we now see Lazarus. The first thing to note is that he is depicted as a beggar. This is an apt description of the Gentiles who "laid at the gate" of Judah. Paul describes the predicament of the Gentiles before they accepted the Messiah in his letter to the Ephesians:

 

[Rick Otto]

I hope to hear answers to these.

All you have to do is review the thread.
He is answered every time.

 

[Fireinfolding]

A gate is also mentioned in the Covenanatle parable of Luke 16

http://www.christianforums.com/t7458936-14/#post54510139
"for I am having 5 brothers...." Luke 16:28

Luke 16:20 Yet a certain poor-one was to name lazaros who had been cast toward the gate/pulwna <4440> of him having sores-abiding

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

*snip*

In contrast to the rich man, we now see Lazarus. The first thing to note is that he is depicted as a beggar. This is an apt description of the Gentiles who "laid at the gate" of Judah. Paul describes the predicament of the Gentiles before they accepted the Messiah in his letter to the Ephesians:

Sorta like the penny Jesus pays a penny to the workers in the vineyard, yet its also something that has Ceasars image on it, one after a carnal truth and the other after a spiritual truth?

Of the certain beggar named Lazarus (singular) was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom.

Here he lifted up the beggar (singularly) to set "them" (plurally) among princes

1Sam 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar (singular) from the dunghill, to set them (plurally) among princes

To Abraham

Gen 23:6 Hear us, my lord: thou art a mighty prince among us

In one, the beggar laid at the gate and the other expresses lifting the beggar from the dunghill, theres also a dung gate and a dung port

And ofcouse dung upon faces which is even the dung of your solemn feasts

Mal 2:3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.

Yet here speaks of gates too

Duet 15:7 If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:

Though although I can see it covenantly you can catch the Spirit of it through the pictures

Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores

Duet 24:14 Thou shalt not oppress an hired servant that is poor and needy, whether he be of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that are in thy land within thy gates:

Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table

Job 31:16 If I have withheld the poor from their desire, or have caused the eyes of the widow to fail;

Inclusive of here...

Job 31:28 This also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge: for I should have denied the God that is above.

Whereas the same is shown here, God blessed and hedged in Job and the hedge was removed

Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

Job 2:10 What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores

And also whats called a sore evil

Ecc 5:13 There is a sore evil which I have seen under the sun, namely, riches kept for the owners thereof to their hurt.

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table

Job 31:17 Or have eaten my morsel myself alone, and the fatherless hath not eaten thereof;

Isaiah 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

I actually just started looking into this at a different angle as well Lamb to catch more. Because we have discussed this in the past and I know how you see it, I try to catch it from as many different angles as I can before I'm convinced of it, but it does say God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith (the poor into Abrahams bosom) and theres that which maketh itself poor but has great riches whereas another maketh himself rich but has nothing which is mirrored in Revealtion as well.

Just started this morning, always takes awhile before the pieces come together more perfectly though

 

[Rick Otto]

Best not to be arguing against Paul who said that his letters are known by their seal/sign/signature.
Knowing had been established, not in stone this time.

I note again a reliance on derrogating circular logic in the context of a faith issue, of which is by definition self-refrencing as is all language systems. This shouldn't be so difficult a consept to grasp for members of the sect that rejects papcy in favor of consensus.

I've gone over this so many times. Under those delusions & denials, any conclusion come to regarding scripture is unassailable because it is simply rejected because of your faith that the systemicaly self-appointed holy men of your sectarian prefrence have the only correct interpretation in the first place. Never mind the 100,000's internal more & less silent dissenters all believing in different things about the Bible, excepting that the Holy Spirit guided them too!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by JacktheCatholic I hope to hear answers to these.

All you have to do is review the thread.
He is answered every time.

So many questions......so many answers! Whoa is us!

Matt 21:24 And Jesus answering said to them, `I will ask you--I also--one word, which if ye may tell me, I also will tell you by what authority I do these things;
25 the baptism of John, whence was it? --from heaven, or from men?'

1 Corinthians 10:1 And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,
2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud and in the sea;
3 and all the same spiritual food did eat,

 

[Standing Up]

For the sake of argument let us agree to accept that the number of 250 plus is inaccurate. I got that from a Catholic media source and have not been able to find an electronic copy I can post. I also do not wish to spend too much time on this.

So, if you are agreeable to it, can we use the 150 so from Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers that I provided. The dates are varied but they were in use by churches that taught and had to be decided upon by somebody.

As mentioned above, you missed the part in the thread about having to be written between the first and last apostles to die. Those are the Jesus Christ ordained bookends of NT scripture.

Go through your list and pick out the ones that were written then.

Also, there is a book I asked about and chose for it's date. It also claims to be from Thomas. As we know, not all the epistles are from Paul and Paul was only called after Jesus went to Heaven and was not part of those that studied with Jesus for years.

The "hidden things" book? Sure, John wrote against gnosticism.

Look, everyone knows that tares and wheat grow together. Someone sent a false letter to Thessalonica. Folks went around parading as apostles. False prophets and false teachers arise alongside the Truth, masquareding as light. What you're saying, however, is that 400 or 1500 years after the fact they got it right. Please, no one is that naive.

Seriously do you think the false letter to Thessalonica is part of scripture and the marked letter of Paul in the trashheap of gehenna? If not, why not? Because of a 400 year later council or because Paul himself marked his letters and told us so? You think the Counicl of Trent somehow got the real letter inserted, that someone descended into hell to bring Christ up or that someone ascended into heaven to bring Christ down? But no, what does it say, the word is nigh thee, even in the heart and mouth from the preaching. For the scripture sayeth ... Folks, God preserved His witness. That we might know and believe too.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Standing Up,

The link I have provided with the Gospel of Thomas says it goes back as early as 50 AD.

I am posting it a 3ed time in hopes of an answer.

A Translation of the Gospel of Thomas

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Standing Up,

The link I have provided with the Gospel of Thomas says it goes back as early as 50 AD.

I am posting it a 3ed time in hopes of an answer.

A Translation of the Gospel of Thomas

I kinda enjoyed reading that Gosped some years back.
Here is a thread on it

http://www.christianforums.com/t3291812/
How much of the Gospel of Thomas is accurate? http://www.christianforums.com/t3291812/