Is being told that you can beat the crap out of someone you own a bad thing...!?
Yes. That would be a bad thing. That's why the Bible forbids it.
Is there a reason you refuse to answer my question?
And again we glide right past the elephant in the room, without giving it a glance...!
You are only referring to the practice of Jews making slaves of other Jews....!
He may be, as I'm not sure which passage he's referring to, but the fact remains that Leviticus 25:10 is not limited to Jews, and states that all slaves must be freed and all debts forgiven.
Perhaps you're thinking of the
Jubilee spoken of in Exodus 21:2, which refers specifically to Jews.
According to your supposed god, you can buy such people and they become your property for life... You can beat the crap out of them at your pleasure, as long as they survive the beating for a couple of days....
Verse, please? And how do you reconcile your belief that the Bible tells you can beat the...out of slaves with Exodus 21:26-27?
Ummmm......that is one of the rules listed in the Bible....!
Then you should have no trouble showing us where that is in the Bible.
Flipped over the nasty bits, did we....?
You mean the "nasty bits" you insist are in the Bible, but never seem to be able to give examples of?
Mate....are you blind...!?
Exodus clearly states that, if you beat your slave so badly that he dies "at your hand", then you should be punished. However, it then goes on to say that, if the slave manages to survive the beating for a day or two and then dies, you are quite within your rights because, after all he was your property....!
Why do you fail to see this...!?
Because I get my understanding of the text from reading the text and not from going to some atheist "gotcha" site and depending on people who haven't read the text to tell me what the text says.
The point of the verse is not that it's OK to beat slaves, but that there should be no murder charge where there is no murder.
Why do you keep ignoring the verses that forbid beating slaves?
No it does not...! Again, that is referring to the treatment of "your brethren", of fellow Jews...!
Except that nowhere in that verse do we see anything about "brethren" or "fellow Jews". It specifically says "all inhabitants", not just Jews.
Read on to verse 39 and you'll see, once again, the separate arrangements for FOREIGN slaves...!
Actually, v 39 is in another passage and is dealing with another topic.
Now, as I asked you before, why are you ignoring my question?
I did.
Oh, before you do, you might like to be reminded of Jesus' supposed words about beating slaves.....
From Luke...
But if that servant says in his heart, My master is delaying his coming, and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant who knew his masters will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Actually, v 41 tells us that Jesus is presenting a parable about his return, not giving instructions about slavery.
Ummmm......no I didn't....it's right there in that passage...!
So, Jesus says that if a slave beats others slaves and/or gets drunk and generally behaves badly while his master is away, then his master should "cut him in two" without warning some time after his return....
Now, separately to that, if a slave fails to do all the things in preparation for his master's return, knowing that his master is returning, and knowing what his master expects of him, shall be beaten with many stripes....!
It's all there......your desperation is a bit pathetic.....
Again, that's a parable about Jesus' return, not instructions on slave keeping.
South Bound,
Could you please quote the verses in which you claim beating slaves is forbidden? You state that you've already posted them, so please humour me and put them up again.....because I don't think they exist.....
If you didn't see them, then why did you respond to them?
Once again, see Exodus 21:26-27.
You are either deliberately telling mistruths (tsk, tsk, the 9th Commandment..), or your knowledge of the scriptures is woefully inadequate....
Or, I could be quoting directly from the verse, which anyone who cares to look that verse up in the ESV can see.
The WHOLE of Leviticus 25 is being addressed to the Jews....period
Nobody's arguing that it's not being addressed to the Jews. The question is how the Jews the chapter is addressed to are told to treat non-Jews.
each of the instructions is about "your countrymen"...!
Correct. It includes all countrymen, not just Jews.
You simply don't have a clue....
You really don't need to be insulting. I believe, all things considered, I've been pretty respectful toward you.
Yes....and in telling that parable, he LIKENS the preparedness people should make for his return with the manner that a slave should prepare for the return of his master.....he then goes on to say what should happen to that slave if he fails in his readiness....!
Exactly. He's giving them a parable, using the story of a slave awaiting his master, not giving a teaching on slavery.
Not that I can find in this thread.
Since you posted this giving the post number shouldn't be too much to ask.
See post #34.
Forbids? That's a verse straight out of the Bible itself!
The verse he quoted is in the Bible. The liberty he took with it is not. Nowhere in that verse does it say that a slave owner is permitted to beat a slave, only that a slave owner who does will not be charged with murder if the slave doesn't die. We have similar laws today.
What's more, I've already posted verses that say that beating a slave is forbidden.
But when foreigner was taken as a slave and treated as chattel, that is quite a bit different, isn't it?
The Bible commands the death penalty for the person who took him.
But since the OP asked specifically about indenture, let's stick to that for this thread.
Only if you are talking about one Hebrew being a slave to another Hebrew. Foreigners taken or bought as slaves were not subject to those restrictions and could be kept as slaves forever, including being passed from father to child as property just like a house or a mule.
Actually, no. As I've shown several times in this thread, the Bible commands that all slaves be freed and all debts forgiven after fifty years.
That is one of the rules listed in the Bible. Exodus 21:20-21
And, as I've explained before, nothing in that verse says that it's permissible for a slave owner to beat a slave, only that the slave owner is not to be charged with murder if the slave doesn't die.
Because there is no verse that forbids beating slaves. If you beat a slave and he doesn't die, what happens?
Actually, I've already provided verses that show that injuring a slave by beating him is forbidden.
We see from scripture that if a slave is beaten until he dies, then the murderer is put to death.
If a slave is injured as a result of his beating, he is to be freed and his debt forgiven as restitution.
There is one verse that makes it punishable to beat a slave so badly that he dies within a day or two. If the slave dies after that, there is to be no punishment. That is straight out of Exodus 21.
Correct. And, as I pointed out a couple of times now, the point of the verse is not that it's OK to beat slaves, but that no murder charge should be brought when there is no murder.
It would really help if you'd read my posts before you respond to them.
